Maintenance Fees

Re: >>So HOA (Home Owners Assoc.) is the same as POA (Property Owners Assoc.) POA is what I have been accustomed to hearing, but obviousely terminology is not uniform from timeshare group to timeshare group. MD<< -------------------------------------------------

Actually, the "HOA" terminology has its roots in full ownership (i.e., non-timeshare, full time occupancy) condominium "homes". Since no timeshare facility is a full time occupied "home", the "POA" terminology seems to be applied more often in the context of timeshares. At the end of the day, however, it's just semantics -- the two acronyms both refer to one and the same thing.

shirley779 wrote:

I think we all agree, maintenance fees are sky high, but what really throws me are the extra charges. We are owners at 2 resorts that are right next to each other on Paradise Island, Bahamas. We are using a week at both places at the same time. We and another couple will stay at one resort, while my brother and his wife will stay at the smaller, older resort next door. WOW, was I surprised when I received our statement for what my husband calls "the fun place". A fee of $65.00 for a confirmation fee?! At a place where we are owners? AND, a resort assessment fee of $23.00 per person per night due upon departure?! When I called them earlier today to question these charges, I was told as of Jan. 14, 2008, there are 2 more daily assessments. $18.00 per person per night "service assessment" that goes to personal that come to the unit such as, room service, laundry, housekeeping ect. and a "villa gratuities" charge of $6.50 per night for tips to the front desk girls! It's cheaper to exchange through RCI than go to our home resort. Is this unusual? Is anyone else experiencing these unreal charges? We don't have these fees at either of our other 2 properties.

It seems these types of extra charges are popping up all over the place now, another negative for owning a timeshare besides ever rising maintenance fees and possible special assessments, however I've never heard of this many extra charges.

You must own at Harborside @ Atlantis. Evidently resort management thinks all owers are rich and can afford the dollar, nickel and diming.

jayjay wrote:

shirley779 wrote:

I think we all agree, maintenance fees are sky high, but what really throws me are the extra charges. We are owners at 2 resorts that are right next to each other on Paradise Island, Bahamas. We are using a week at both places at the same time. We and another couple will stay at one resort, while my brother and his wife will stay at the smaller, older resort next door. WOW, was I surprised when I received our statement for what my husband calls "the fun place". A fee of $65.00 for a confirmation fee?! At a place where we are owners? AND, a resort assessment fee of $23.00 per person per night due upon departure?! When I called them earlier today to question these charges, I was told as of Jan. 14, 2008, there are 2 more daily assessments. $18.00 per person per night "service assessment" that goes to personal that come to the unit such as, room service, laundry, housekeeping ect. and a "villa gratuities" charge of $6.50 per night for tips to the front desk girls! It's cheaper to exchange through RCI than go to our home resort. Is this unusual? Is anyone else experiencing these unreal charges? We don't have these fees at either of our other 2 properties.

It seems these types of extra charges are popping up all over the place now, another negative for owning a timeshare besides ever rising maintenance fees and possible special assessments, however I've never heard of this many extra charges.

You must own at Harborside @ Atlantis. Evidently resort management thinks all owers are rich and can afford the dollar, nickel and diming.

Yes, we do own at Harborside, but also at Club Land'or. Land 'or is the resort gouging us with all the extra charges. I checked with Harborside and they have NO daily charges. The only items on our bill at check out are our meals, bar bills and any other items we purchase and put on our room charge. I added it up and for the 3 friends staying at Club Land'or, the add on fees for the week (6 nites of use not 7) will total $479.00! And, our maintance fee there is the same, within $20.00 of the small side of our lock-off at Harborside. The reason I bought a time share was because my husband is a workaholic and the only way I could get him to commit to a week of vacation,. is if he had money to lose if he didn't take one. One more thing, in the 7 years of ownership at Harborside, we never had a special assessment. In 8 years at the other place, we've had 3. The last one was for almost $600.00 Time to unload it, I think.

shirley779 wrote:

It would seem that way with all the extra charges and special assessments.

I was reading messages about rci and complaints about them and their network affiliates. I thought I provide you with my personal experience with my rci mastercard which I got when I signed up for a timeshare purchase in Cancun Mexico this summer. Hopefully this can help others. It started with us buying a 2/2 unit, yacht club membership and equestrian..for over US$24,000. I was approved by the above mentioned company and the whole amount was charged as authorized. While still in Cancun and within 3 business days, I decided to cancel my timeshare contract. The timeshare hotel operator gave me the run-around and I was told and shown a piece of paper that I had waived my right to cancel when I signed for a price reduction. This was signed but we did not get a copy of in our official contract. My research showed that this was not the case and I realized that they were not negotiating in good faith and so I visited Profec, the tourism arm that protects the consumer in Mexico. There is another story there but let me continue with what happened. Profeco negotiated on my behalf and I went back to the hotel with the correct paperwork and they still gave me a hard time. After hours of stalling, I got my credits back based on my contract and was satisfied with what I did. A month after, however my credit card had a bill that reflected over a $500 difference that I was still owing. I had never spend any money on that new rci mastercard issued by bank of america. I was told it was currency adjustment...but my transaction was in US$. I submitted all the necessary documents but so far to no avail. Compounded by all of this, I have a related identity theft on this same card. Things to learn here, use your existing card to buy from out of country. Timeshares can be great for the right situation but buyers beware of unscrupulous operators and their financial agents who support them.

jimmyl24 wrote:

I was reading messages about rci and complaints about them and their network affiliates. I thought I provide you with my personal experience with my rci mastercard which I got when I signed up for a timeshare purchase in Cancun Mexico this summer. Hopefully this can help others. It started with us buying a 2/2 unit, yacht club membership and equestrian..for over US$24,000. I was approved by the above mentioned company and the whole amount was charged as authorized. While still in Cancun and within 3 business days, I decided to cancel my timeshare contract. The timeshare hotel operator gave me the run-around and I was told and shown a piece of paper that I had waived my right to cancel when I signed for a price reduction. This was signed but we did not get a copy of in our official contract. My research showed that this was not the case and I realized that they were not negotiating in good faith and so I visited Profec, the tourism arm that protects the consumer in Mexico. There is another story there but let me continue with what happened. Profeco negotiated on my behalf and I went back to the hotel with the correct paperwork and they still gave me a hard time. After hours of stalling, I got my credits back based on my contract and was satisfied with what I did. A month after, however my credit card had a bill that reflected over a $500 difference that I was still owing. I had never spend any money on that new rci mastercard issued by bank of america. I was told it was currency adjustment...but my transaction was in US$. I submitted all the necessary documents but so far to no avail. Compounded by all of this, I have a related identity theft on this same card. Things to learn here, use your existing card to buy from out of country. Timeshares can be great for the right situation but buyers beware of unscrupulous operators and their financial agents who support them.

I would continue working with Profeco and RCI's credit card's customer service (or higher management) until this dispute is resolved ..... whatever you do, don't give up.

BTW, it's against Mexican law for the rescission period to be waived by a resort for ANY REASON.

I have a timshare where the maininence fees are high $850. When I do the math, however, I do not come to the same conclusion as most of the responses above. Lets use the number from one of the examples above:

"Given that the building may have 20 units he is collecting 550,000.00$ per building per year."

Labor is expensive. Lets say the average person on the payroll makes $55,000 per year with benifits. That $550,0000 will employe aproximately 10 people. Then you need to consider utilities, insurance, wear & tear consumables. The maintence fees for a free standing unit will be much higher than a multiple unit structure.

I know at my timeshare they give us a breakdown of the costs to run the place. The cost for insurance in Florida is crazy!! I think that the poor folks working to maintain the place are probably underpaid.

When I consider what it costs me to keep-up a house, I think that the timeshare fees are probably a bargin.

PS I think that the ones making all the profits are the developers. It is insane what the places are selling for initially...

marks708, The difference is you own a timeshare. Club Land 'or isn't a timeshare, it's a "vacation club." The rules are not the same. Club Land 'or is not required to tell you where your yearly maintenance fees are going and their letters of explanation for needing all those special assessments are very vague. Club Land 'or is located in the Bahamas but it's corporate office is in Virginia, so I think it's safe to say the average income is nowhere near $55,000. We also own a timeshare at Harborside located right next to Club Land 'or. There, we know exactly where our money is going. And by the way, in 9 years of ownership at Harborside we have NEVER had a special assessment and when you break down the dollars, a one bedroom (small side) at Harborside is cheaper than a unit at Club Land 'or.

I think there are some flaws in your argument. First, $850 per week times 20 units times 50 weeks/yr (2 weeks not counted) = $850,000 not $550,000. Secondly, any resort that needs 10 employees for every 20 units is WAY over-staffed. In the apartment business, generally 1 maintenance person per 50 apartment units is about average. Even if you doubled that for time-shares and then added a management staff of 3-4 people for a 100+ unit resort, you should not need that kind of budget. My resort shows huge amounts for administration and management fees ($1,310,000 for those 2 line-items out of a $3,082,000 total budget for 108 units), and that does not include housekeeping or repairs and maintenance, which are separately budgeted items. I would agree the workers are not getting rich, but I would also maintain the management company is at their and our (the owners) expense. Any management company that operated that way in the apartment industry would be out of business in a hurry because they would have no business. When the person who owns the management company also controls the Board it is a different story.

I think that there are probably situations where the timeshare companies are taking advantage of the owners (there are crooks everywhere in this world). I guess you have to look at each situation and see if it makes sense. I know it is expensive to maintain these places, especially near the ocean in Florida... The breakdown of the expenses seem reasonable, to me, when you take a close look at them for my timeshare. I also bought it for a real good deal on ebay.

I stayed at a timeshare at Disney (Marriott) a few years ago. I believe that they were asking around 30k for a 2 bedroom unit. When you consider 50 weeks sold, these developers are getting about $1.5 million for each unit. I am guessing that they are not actually worth more than $200-300k, if they were sold as condo's. So I think the fare price as a timeshare week for these units is about 6k. I think these developers are the real bandits... Maybe this is why they are so tough to resell?

I don't think the maintenance fees would as tough of a pill to swallow if you don't pay a fortune for the timeshare. I know that hotel rooms are approximately $100-200 per night and family cant stay comfortably in a hotel room... bargain in my book for a timeshare maintenance fee... add to this the fact that you can trade to other locations or rent it out... great deal...

marks708 wrote:

I stayed at a timeshare at Disney (Marriott) a few years ago. I believe that they were asking around 30k for a 2 bedroom unit.

There's not a timeshare on this planet that I would pay 30K for one week's use, but many people will (or used to before the bad economy set in) would drop that kind of money ...... I honestly don't get it.

Many folks taking the bait are well educated people, but buying a timeshare is an emotional mind game when vacationers are off guard and are in a good mood. Many people have never seen a nice resort and are blown away when taking a tour.

From what I gather, most developers will start with a selling price and when the prospective buyer balks they then sweeten the deal by lowering the price or offering some kind of incentive making the buyer think he's getting a good deal.

You definitetly did the right thing by buying resale.

We pay almost $1000.00 annual maintenance fees for our points timeshare deeded at silver lakes Kissimmee it is over 10 years old there are a lot of complaints online re: silver lakes, dated, bed bugs, cleanliness, poor amenities. When we bought, this was a top range RCI resort as far as I know this is no longer the case. The maintenance fees have almost trebled since we purchased however quality especially on older units has dropped where is my maintenance money being spent!

dianeg409 wrote:

We pay almost $1000.00 annual maintenance fees for our points timeshare deeded at silver lakes Kissimmee it is over 10 years old there are a lot of complaints online re: silver lakes, dated, bed bugs, cleanliness, poor amenities. When we bought, this was a top range RCI resort as far as I know this is no longer the case. The maintenance fees have almost trebled since we purchased however quality especially on older units has dropped where is my maintenance money being spent!

I don't claim to know your resort or anything at all about it, but only your HOA can knowledgeably answer your question. Doesn't your HOA provide you with annual, detailed, itemized budget reports and financial statement and financial projections for repairs and updating of furniture, appliances, HVAC, etc.? They should. If they are not doing so, they are outright negligent in failing to provide you with all of the information to which you are routinely entitled as an owner supporting the place.