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Diamond Resorts reduces owner benefits again!
Hi Phil:
I'm compiling my list and letter as we speak and will probably mail out after Christmas. I will send it to Billing and Collections Dept,. Attention Ricky with CC to others. When I get close to sending, I'll shoot you a copy from my gmail account which will have the names of others and possibly those that I've spoken to specifically regarding the reason we're letting our membership go. I haven't compiled the groups mentioned in this forum but will look into adding whoever may be interested in the CC.
What are your going to do?
Sheri K.
If you give it back, they will sell it to somebody else. The more times they can sell the same merchandise, the richer they get. The people at www.poipuowners.org seem to be getting some traction. There may be a happier resolution to your situation. It may be worth consideration!
David L.
sherik43 wrote:Hi Phil:I'm compiling my list and letter as we speak and will probably mail out after Christmas. I will send it to Billing and Collections Dept,. Attention Ricky with CC to others. When I get close to sending, I'll shoot you a copy from my gmail account which will have the names of others and possibly those that I've spoken to specifically regarding the reason we're letting our membership go. I haven't compiled the groups mentioned in this forum but will look into adding whoever may be interested in the CC.
What are your going to do?
I would like to talk with you about your choice to surrender your points membership...I got your email from "Redweek", and wanted to ask you who you talked with at Diamond, and how you came to the decision to give your membership back, and even if that is possible... We just returned from Kauai a week ago, we tried to have a meeting with a Diamond Representative, but they just shuffled us into a sales presentation.. We told them prior to our arrival that we would not attend any sales presentations as we surely would not buy another dimes worth of anything Diamond had to sell... So after we walked out in disgust from their attempt to do a sales pitch, the manager called us to apologise, and I again asked to see a Diamond Rep as now we were angry... They scheduled a meeting that was represented to be with the "Project Manager", it was nothing but another sales presentation... They refused to answer any of our questions, and when we said that we were considering walking away from our 31,000 points (paid for), they said that Diamond was not involved, it was the "Owners Association"... My Question to you is, Are you going to give back your membership points, and if so who have you arranged that with...? We could not get an answer to that question or any other questions... I view Diamond as an ongoing fraud, and an ongoing criminal enterprise, and we are strongly considering walking away from the $ 55,000 we paid as well we have 31,000 points rolled over into 2012... But we are sick to death with Diamond...
Michael D.
Just a quick response to the idea of "giving back" something for DRI to resell;
My understanding (simplistically stated) of how timeshare ownership/membership works is the same as a gym membership in that there are no finite number of memberships or points that exist to sell. They can sell until kingdom come, which especially makes sense when you own points, and therefore there's nothing "real" that is being given back. I own points, not real estate. If DRI folds, than so do my points unless some other developer/management buys it.
Sheri K.
kpaul5257 wrote:Yes, that is true, they will just continue to sell more points... But they will do that regardless, they will just not have our $4,328 annually in fee's ( and that will surely go much higher) and the $5,200 water intrusion assessment and the reduced availability for the next 4-6 years while they rebuild... If enough walk away it may help put pressure on Diamond... Does anyone believe that Diamond will become a more reputable organization in the future, or will they resort to a bunker mentality and fight these challenges which we as members will actually pay their legal costs... We are fighting an endless battle with costs that far outweigh the value of what we get for our money...Michael D....David712 makes a good point.
Michael D.
sherik43 wrote:When the fee's you pay for your membership are more expensive than the services you recieve, and there are to many members to service, and you cannot get into the place when it is convienent for you, do you go on paying for something indefinately, and if that management told you that you cannot quit paying we own you and you are indebted forever... That is essentially the present situationJust a quick response to the idea of "giving back" something for DRI to resell;My understanding (simplistically stated) of how timeshare ownership/membership works is the same as a gym membership in that there are no finite number of memberships or points that exist to sell. They can sell until kingdom come, which especially makes sense when you own points, and therefore there's nothing "real" that is being given back. I own points, not real estate. If DRI folds, than so do my points unless some other developer/management buys it.
Michael D.
sherik43 wrote:Hi Phil:I'm compiling my list and letter as we speak and will probably mail out after Christmas. I will send it to Billing and Collections Dept,. Attention Ricky with CC to others. When I get close to sending, I'll shoot you a copy from my gmail account which will have the names of others and possibly those that I've spoken to specifically regarding the reason we're letting our membership go. I haven't compiled the groups mentioned in this forum but will look into adding whoever may be interested in the CC.
What are your going to do?
Hi Sheri -
I am letting my membership go too. I appreciate your help, and look forward to your emal with the address of who to send the letter to.
Thanks, Phil
Phil K.
Hi Phil,
Since the maintenance bill comes from the Assessment Dept., that is who the letter will go to:
Assessment Fee Department Attention: Supervisor 10600 West Charleston Blvd. Las Vegas, NV 89135-1014
RE: Membership xxxxxx- Allen and Sheri xxxxxxx
cc Collections Dept., Supervisor, Ricky cc Billing Dept. cc Financial Services
The letter is for DRI internal depts. in response to the maintenance bill. I will send the letter with my payment stub. It explains that we will not be paying our maintenance fees now or ever with a full explanation as to why.
I also may send a copy to other persons or groups of interest simply to share our timeshare testimony.
Sheri K.
The Garden Island Diamond Resorts responds in dispute with timeshare owners Michael Levine - The Garden Island | Posted: Monday, March 1, 2010 Submitted to The Garden Island newspaper in Hawaii The following information is being provided to The Garden Island as an update to the article that was posted in March of 2010 by COPP, LLC. The fight is ongoing and COPP’s voice is getting louder. LIHU‘E — In a wry turn of events, the Concerned Owners of The Point at Poipu (“COPP, LLC”, formerly “CDOPP”), a vacation owners group that was threatened with a lawsuit by the developer/management company of The Point at Poipu in March of last year, is now itself preparing a lawsuit against this corporate giant, Diamond Resorts International, Inc. (“DRI”), one of the largest hospitality companies in the world. There has been an intense struggle between DRI and many upset vacation owners at the resort in Kauai who have owned there long before DRI ever showed up. Many of these owners are alleging that they have been deceived by DRI , that DRI has serious conflicts of interest in Board decisions and does not recuse itself, that there is a shocking lack of disclosure of essential information, that it has been non-compliant with Hawaii Revised Statutes and that the resort is generally mismanaged. The initial grassroots efforts of this owners group was spearheaded by former President of CDOPP, Rich Batchelder, who retired from the group in October of this year, leaving the group floundering. Unwilling to give up, members of CDOPP recruited a new, energized board to help them. According to Keith Paulsen, the new President, it was a Facebook page designed by one of the vacation owners, Tammy Sona, which helped revitalize the group. This Facebook page now gave members a way to communicate with each other where there had been none before. Sona currently plays a pivotal role as one of the new board members of the owners group that is now called “COPP, LLC.” The address of the Facebook page that she created is: http://www.facebook.com/pointatpoipu. Meanwhile, the next DRI atrocity was foisted on all of the vacation owners at The Point at Poipu when they were informed in October 2011 of a $65 million assessment to repair damages to the resort from water intrusion. This outrageous price tag would be paid for by the vacation owners and in part by DRI. To illustrate, an owner that holds a vacation interest for two weeks a year is expected to pay, by January 1, 2012, more than $6,300, consisting of maintenance fees and the first-year water intrusion assessment fees. Further, this entire amount would have to be paid by February 1, 2012, in order to avoid: “…the following: a. A one-time late charge equal to 5% of the delinquent amount. b. An interest charge of 12% per annum from the due date. c. General Excise Tax (GET) of 4.16666% on all of the above charges. d. Owner will suffer suspension of use rights. e. All future reservations will be cancelled and owner will be required to re-book the reservation and will be subject to first come, first served availability.” If the account is not paid in full or not operating under a payment plan by February 15, 2012, “…the account will be submitted for collection action resulting in additional collection fees.” If the account is not paid by March 15, 2012, “Your Board of Directors may request any necessary actions to collect outstanding assessments. Actions may include but are not limited to the following: 1. Submit a delinquent account to an attorney. 2. Engage a professional collection agency. 3. Record a claim of assessment lien. 4. Foreclose on the claim of assessment lien. 5. Institute a small claims suit or legal action. All related costs for the above, including General Excise Tax (GET) of 4.16666%, will be added to the delinquent member’s account.” Tammy Sona speaks for many vacation owners when she says, “A great number of our owners are retired now, having spent many years working hard so they could enjoy their senior years vacationing in Kauai. This assessment is such a hardship on these owners, not just the ones that are retired, and some will be forced to surrender their deeds or be foreclosed on. This just isn’t right, it’s not the way you treat people.” Vacation owners were notified of all this in October 2011, giving them THREE MONTHS NOTICE to come up with thousands of dollars for an unexpected assessment. To add fuel to the fire, two informational meetings were held on October 19, 2011, in Irvine, California, and on October 20, 2011, in San Francisco, California, just days after the assessment fees were announced. Most vacation owners, of course, would not be able to attend these meetings on such short notice and at their expense. NO informational meetings about the water intrusion problem have taken place at the resort! The vacation owners have been led to believe that DRI has performed its due diligence regarding the $65 million assessment. To the contrary, DRI will not release pertinent information such as the consultants’ reports, engineers’ and architects’ reports, insurance policies and other documents that would help to justify this huge expense. COPP, LLC, does not dispute that some of the work is necessary, but it wants the opportunity to bring in an independent third party to assess the situation. “With many of our members having backgrounds in the construction-related industries, we’re not about to accept this without some degree of scrutiny” asserts Paulsen. DRI insists that the insurance company denied the claim for the damage, but no one except DRI has seen the denial letter. DRI has created a website for vacation owners’ perusal regarding the water intrusion problem, but nothing of real substance can be found there. Former Diamond Resorts International Executive Vice President and General Counsel Elizabeth Brennan was quoted in a March 1, 2010, Garden Island article that stated “…the few members of the concerned owners group are not representative of the ownership of this resort and their satisfaction level.” The disgruntled owners group, renamed COPP, LLC (Concerned Owners at the Point at Poipu) has grown to well over 1,000 determined owners looking for changes to the operations and management of the resort. Members of COPP, LLC, who have been interested in running for a position on one of the resort’s Boards of Directors have been denied by DRI their request for the resort’s membership list, needed to gain support for their candidacy by contacting other owners. This denial, both at The Point at Poipu and at the Kaanapali Beach Club in Maui, is contrary to the laws of Hawaii and to the resorts’ organizational documents. Section 514A-83.3 of the Hawai‘i Revised Statutes requires the board of directors to provide an ownership list to any owner for the use of soliciting votes. The management and corporate administration fees at The Point at Poipu that were $721,262 in 2007 have increased to $3,265,745, budgeted for 2012--over a 353% increase during this short timeframe. The DRI executives would like us to believe that the Board of Directors (consisting of a majority of DRI employees or relatives of DRI employees) voted for these increases independent of their association with DRI. DRI’s Vice President of Association Administration, Linda Riddle, was quoted in an earlier article, “If they aren’t happy, they could vote us out. They have the power to do that.” COPP, LLC, members disagree. “If it was that easy, it would be done immediately,” said Paulsen, “but without the membership list everyone knows that it’s virtually impossible to campaign for office, and DRI wants it that way.” Paulsen adds “with control of the boards, including the Hawaii Collection Board of Directors, the vacation owners are at the mercy of this corporate giant. It’s really a David versus Goliath situation but this is a determined group of owners that are not going to stop fighting no matter who is running the show. I think they are underestimating the strength of the membership and the power of the internet.” Members of COPP, LLC, have been very active on the internet and others have helped support their efforts. COPP, LLC, registration grows on a daily basis and it is a very simple registration process. Hawaii Collection members can also register by inputting their account number followed by “HC” to identify that they are a points collection member. The Hawaii Collection consists of The Point at Poipu in Kauai, The Kaanapali Beach Club in Maui, the Polo Towers Villas in Las Vegas, and the Sedona Summit Resort in Sedona, AZ. Members of the Hawaii Collection are also charged a portion of the assessment based on the amount of points they own, whether or not they have ever used or plan to use the resort in Kauai. Brennan and Riddle said the proscription elsewhere in 514A against directors voting on an issue in which they have a conflict of interest could apply to developer reps and deeded owners alike, and said they do not believe there are conflicts of interest when the boards vote on budgets that include fees that impact the company’s bottom line. To that Sona replied, “This statement made by DRI is almost comical. Do they really think people are that stupid? They want us to believe that their employees are going to bite the hand that feeds them, seriously?” DRI’s tactics have demonstrated its intention to completely take over the Point at Poipu. It has encouraged vacation owners to surrender their deeds in exchange for membership and points in its vacation club. It recently offered some vacation owners a reduced Water Intrusion Assessment if they would give up their deeds for points and then buy additional points in the vacation club. What DRI is not disclosing is that owners who surrender their deeds lose all voting rights and no longer have any say about how the resort is run. COPP, LLC, intends to discourage vacation owners at the Point at Poipu from surrendering their deeds. It fully intends to keep working diligently to reclaim its resort from DRI. For more information on the concerned deeded owners, visit www.poipuowners.org.
Pamela J.
michaeld414 wrote:sherik43 wrote:Hi Phil:I'm compiling my list and letter as we speak and will probably mail out after Christmas. I will send it to Billing and Collections Dept,. Attention Ricky with CC to others. When I get close to sending, I'll shoot you a copy from my gmail account which will have the names of others and possibly those that I've spoken to specifically regarding the reason we're letting our membership go. I haven't compiled the groups mentioned in this forum but will look into adding whoever may be interested in the CC.
What are your going to do?
I would like to talk with you about your choice to surrender your points membership...I got your email from "Redweek", and wanted to ask you who you talked with at Diamond, and how you came to the decision to give your membership back, and even if that is possible... We just returned from Kauai a week ago, we tried to have a meeting with a Diamond Representative, but they just shuffled us into a sales presentation.. We told them prior to our arrival that we would not attend any sales presentations as we surely would not buy another dimes worth of anything Diamond had to sell... So after we walked out in disgust from their attempt to do a sales pitch, the manager called us to apologise, and I again asked to see a Diamond Rep as now we were angry... They scheduled a meeting that was represented to be with the "Project Manager", it was nothing but another sales presentation... They refused to answer any of our questions, and when we said that we were considering walking away from our 31,000 points (paid for), they said that Diamond was not involved, it was the "Owners Association"...
My Question to you is, Are you going to give back your membership points, and if so who have you arranged that with...? We could not get an answer to that question or any other questions... I view Diamond as an ongoing fraud, and an ongoing criminal enterprise, and we are strongly considering walking away from the $ 55,000 we paid as well we have 31,000 points rolled over into 2012... But we are sick to death with Diamond...
hi michael,
i hope i've been able to answer your question through the posts i've made on this forum. if you have any questions, leave a contact address for me and i'll gladly respond directly. sounds like you own a lot of points.
i thought the last post by pamela was encouraging for those who own at poipu....
Sheri K.
sherik43 wrote:michaeld414 wrote:sherik43 wrote:Hi Phil:I'm compiling my list and letter as we speak and will probably mail out after Christmas. I will send it to Billing and Collections Dept,. Attention Ricky with CC to others. When I get close to sending, I'll shoot you a copy from my gmail account which will have the names of others and possibly those that I've spoken to specifically regarding the reason we're letting our membership go. I haven't compiled the groups mentioned in this forum but will look into adding whoever may be interested in the CC.
What are your going to do?
I would like to talk with you about your choice to surrender your points membership...I got your email from "Redweek", and wanted to ask you who you talked with at Diamond, and how you came to the decision to give your membership back, and even if that is possible... We just returned from Kauai a week ago, we tried to have a meeting with a Diamond Representative, but they just shuffled us into a sales presentation.. We told them prior to our arrival that we would not attend any sales presentations as we surely would not buy another dimes worth of anything Diamond had to sell... So after we walked out in disgust from their attempt to do a sales pitch, the manager called us to apologise, and I again asked to see a Diamond Rep as now we were angry... They scheduled a meeting that was represented to be with the "Project Manager", it was nothing but another sales presentation... They refused to answer any of our questions, and when we said that we were considering walking away from our 31,000 points (paid for), they said that Diamond was not involved, it was the "Owners Association"...
My Question to you is, Are you going to give back your membership points, and if so who have you arranged that with...? We could not get an answer to that question or any other questions... I view Diamond as an ongoing fraud, and an ongoing criminal enterprise, and we are strongly considering walking away from the $ 55,000 we paid as well we have 31,000 points rolled over into 2012... But we are sick to death with Diamond...
hi michael,
i hope i've been able to answer your question through the posts i've made on this forum. if you have any questions, leave a contact address for me and i'll gladly respond directly. sounds like you own a lot of points.
i thought the last post by pamela was encouraging for those who own at poipu....
Yes the article in the Kauai paper is interesting, and should be a good warning to those who have not bought into Diamond Resorts... I know that any resolution to these problems are years away at best, as Diamond has deep pockets, and can use members money to pay legal cost obfuscating, stalling, defending, and counter suing to intimidate the Owners Group... Even if you get them into court and get a favorable ruling, they will appeal any decision that is not to their benefit... We are just not into this crusade to seek justice one inch at a time, because there are miles to go... We do not contemplate walking away lightly, its frustrating to deal with this corporate management that is unwilling to do anything that might assist the Deeded Owners, or the unhappy Points Members... They will not allow anyone access to the Member Roster willingly, and that legal challenge as well as the make up of the Board of Directors could take years to settle... The best way for the members to make an impact is to refuse to pay, if the Owners Group en masse did that, and filed litigation at the same time, you might make things happen faster... migueldd45@aol.com or call me 503 643 9816
Michael D.
kpaul5257 wrote:Bill, I'm sure you can get a lot of information from the Poipu Owners group. They have hundreds of members and hundreds of documents. www.PoipuOwners.org
Count us in with the fight against " unreasonable" process. How can we participate? We plan on using a lawyer to challenge their process but want to join the owners group as well.
Dwight K.
If you are not happy with DRI, register at www.poipuowners.org and join the fight to TAKE BACK OUR RESORT. We CAN make the Point the resort which we all fell in love with once again! DO NOT GIVE UP ON THE POINT! Register and help stop the plunder of our resort!
David L.