What happens if you just stop PAYING?

In-depth discussion on Tug if you quit paying maintenance fees (copy and paste urls):

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55764&highlight=quit+paying+maintenance+fees

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86341

Jayjay,

You have challenged me from the first day I posted on this site and you continue to do so up to the present time. You seem to think you are the bold print authority on all timeshare issues. Unfortunately, there are some gaps in your knowledge and I have tried to educate you along the way. Sometimes there are successes as when you admitted that you were wrong about verbal contracts being enforceable but by and large helping you has been an arduous task with few successes.

Unlike you, I purchased my first timeshare resale and have been an owner of one or more timeshares for twenty plus years. I have acquired some knowledge along the way that I think can be helpful to new owners and I also have twenty-five plus years of experience in the consumer law field that enables me to address some issues facing those unable to sell or give away their timeshares.

I will respond to your latest ranting but I do not plan to continue to interact with you on this topic unless you post something patently false or so egregious that it must be addressed.

Your comment:

“ It's a given when you buy a resale that you pay the yearly maintenance fees even though it may not be spelled out in your 'resale contract' and YOU WILL be obligated to pay those fees if the week is in your name, period.”

My response:

I am pleased to see you have finally come around – one of my educational successes with you – and tacitly admitted that you did not sign an agreement on the dotted line to pay the maintenance fees when you purchased your 8 timeshares at resale. Sure it is true that one will lose their timeshare if they default on the MFs as I have said many times. But it is not true that the timeshare owner is personally liable for the debt. The significance to it not being a personal obligation is that a creditor cannot legally ding your credit for failing to pay the maintenance fee. Sure some rogue resorts may do so or at least threaten to do so but you can challenge it and have it removed if you know your rights under Federal law.

Your comment:

”Since you've never defaulted, how would you know what procedures a resort would go through in order to collect past due maintenance fees.”

My comment: I could turn your question on you by asking you how you know so much about the various resorts’ collection procedures but I think we both know the drill. First the resort sends out demand letters when the fees go into default, followed by letters and calls from collection agencies, and finally the foreclosure. Although I do not have personal experience with the procedure, I have advised many folks facing similar situations. One does not have to commit murder to know what the consequences are.

Your comments:

”Everything you have said is purely 'conjecture' because you think paying maintenance fees on vacation timeshare is somehow trivial than making a car, house, credit card, etc. payment. A contract is a contract no matter what kind of contract it is.”

My response:

Conjecture means to “conclude from incomplete evidence” or “to speculate” and your use of the word here is totally inaccurate. All of the opinions expressed by me are based on Federal statutory or case law. It is not purely conjecture. You do not know what I “think” and I categorically state that defaulting on one’s MFs is not a trivial matter and there are consequences that can end in foreclosure. But, I also full well know that a maintenance fee (in rem) obligation is totally different from a car loan, home loan, or credit card debt where you do sign on the dotted line and personally obligate yourself to pay. The timeshare maintenance fee is not a contractual debt just as the obligation to pay fees to your local neighborhood association in North Carolina is not a contractual debt. Your failure to pay your neighborhood fees, assuming there is a neighborhood association where you live, can result in a lien being placed against your home followed by a foreclosure of the lien.

Your comment:

”Do you have examples of people that you've counseled and told to just 'quit paying maintenance fees' and what the results were thereafter? I would be very interested to hear what you have to say regarding this.”

My comment:

You completely missed the point of my response to Joseph. My advice was intended for anyone who due to financial reverses was unable to pay their MFs and was also unable to sell or give away the timeshare. I have never recommended that anyone just “quit paying maintenance fees” if they are able to do so. You know as well as I do what happens – a foreclosure. My advice was to contact the resort in writing and explain the circumstances and seek a deed in lieu of foreclosure. I am not going to do the work for you but you can go to the deed records in any county where there are timeshare resorts and you will find a multitude of deed backs. It happens all the time but this is one little piece of information the timeshare industry does not want you to know because as you have said, the “maintenance fees are the bread and butter” of the industry.

This is definitely my – 30 – on this topic as I have more important matters to work on.

carvana wrote:

You completely missed the point of my response to Joseph. My advice was intended for anyone who due to financial reverses was unable to pay their MFs and was also unable to sell or give away the timeshare. I have never recommended that anyone just “quit paying maintenance fees” if they are able to do so. You know as well as I do what happens – a foreclosure. My advice was to contact the resort in writing and explain the circumstances and seek a deed in lieu of foreclosure. I am not going to do the work for you but you can go to the deed records in any county where there are timeshare resorts and you will find a multitude of deed backs. It happens all the time but this is one little piece of information the timeshare industry does not want you to know because as you have said, the “maintenance fees are the bread and butter” of the industry.

1. Joesph wasn't in dire straights financially concerning his MF's (please read his first post). He merely got tired of paying them and had no use for his timeshare any longer.

2. You are correct that anyone can get in touch with a resort requesting that they take a deed back in lieu of foreclosure, but that doesn't mean they will (in most cases they won't).

3. Did you read the threads from TUG that I posted (evidently not)? TUG is where I received my timeshare education and I have been reading it daily for almost 9 years. Members of TUG are the most timeshare educated people in the entire world. See what they say about merely 'quitting paying maintenance fees' and the repercussions that will follow. Surely you know how to copy and paste urls?

4. The reason I so adamantly argue against your advice is that I don't want readers here thinking they can just 'quit paying maintenance fees' and they end up with their credit screwed up.

5. The only problem I have ever had with you on this forum is the same bad advice you've given before concerning 'quitting paying maintenance fees', with no repercussions, otherwise I have no problem with your posts. You give your advice as if millions of people do this everyday with no problem.

Jayjay,

I have one last bit of educational advice for you that I overlooked in my earlier post. You said "a contract is a contract no matter what kind of contract it is" Go one more time and review your file of records relating to the purchase of the 8 resales. You will find a deed and probably a sales contract for each of the purchases. Look at the deeds where you initially acquired your timeshares. Did you sign the deeds? No your seller signed the deeds. So the deed does not constitute a contract you signed. Now look at the sales contract. Who signed it? Both the seller and you but not the resort. The resort was not a party to your sales contract. A contract may be a contract but where is your contract agreeing to pay the maintenance fees?

I will respond to your latest comments but I know from experience that you always get the last word and so you will on this topic. Your comments are numbered and my response is immediately below your comment.

1. Joesph wasn't in dire straights financially concerning his MF's (please read his first post). He merely got tired of paying them and had no use for his timeshare any longer.1. Joesph wasn't in dire straights financially concerning his MF's (please read his first post). He merely got tired of paying them and had no use for his timeshare any longer.

You have said over and over that Joseph merely got tired of paying the fees. Lets forget about Joseph for the moment. My advice was to anyone who due to financial circumstances cannot pay their MFs and to those who have been unable to sell or give away their timeshare. My advice was general in nature and not necessarily for Joseph because neither of us admittedly knows his financial situation.

2. You are correct that anyone can get in touch with a resort requesting that they take a deed back in lieu of foreclosure, but that doesn't mean they will (in most cases they won't).

Certainly that is what the resort will tell you when you contact them about taking the timeshare back because "they are not in the business of taking back timeshares." In time they either will take a deed back or they will foreclose. Those are their only options if an owner does not pay the MF. If they go the foreclosure route they will of necessity have to hire an attorney or use an in house attorney who draws a salary. Once the attorney is involved and it is out of the collectors hands he/she will offer a deed back to resolve the matter.This may be months after the resort initially refused to take a deed back. Certainly there are some resorts that as a business practice will continue to refuse the deed back because they want to teach the timeshare owner a lesson. This is literally shooting themselves in the foot financially but a small number will follow through with the foreclosure to make a point.

3. Did you read the threads from TUG that I posted (evidently not)? TUG is where I received my timeshare education and I have been reading it daily for almost 9 years. Members of TUG are the most timeshare educated people in the entire world. See what they say about merely 'quitting paying maintenance fees' and the repercussions that will follow. Surely you know how to copy and paste urls?

Your condescending comment about my ability to copy and paste an Internet address is certainly deserved in light of some of my demeaning comments to you. Touche!

Yes, I frequently read TUG but nothing I have read there - including your links - changes my opinion concerning the rights of beleaguered timeshare owners who cannot sell or give away their timeshares.

4. The reason I so adamantly argue against your advice is that I don't want readers here thinking they can just 'quit paying maintenance fees' and they end up with their credit screwed up.

What right of yours is it to decide what readers can and cannot think. That is each individual's right. They can read what I write and discard it as you do or they can act upon it.

5. The only problem I have ever had with you on this forum is the same bad advice you've given before concerning 'quitting paying maintenance fees', with no repercussions, otherwise I have no problem with your posts. You give your advice as if millions of people do this everyday with no problem.

Where did I ever say there were no repercussions. I suspect you can cut and paste. Please go back to any of my prior posts and copy and paste here any comment where I said one could stop paying maintenance fees and there would be no repercussions. Possibly we both want to help only our perspectives are different. You look at events through the eyes of the developer whose lawyers drafted the one sided declaration to begin with and I look from that of the individual timeshare owner who is desperate and thinks he/she is forever saddled into infinity with a worthless timeshare.

I think it is fair for the readers to read both of our perspectives.

well, thank you ken. You have, finally, laid it out in a fashion I can understand. I'm willing to risk my credit, which is now excellent. And I will write my timeshare and offer the unit back in lieu of foreclosure (I've already told them, on the phone, that I wasn't going to pay them any more).

And then I'll just wait and see. I see no point in sending them any more money. And if the unit has any value at all (which I doubt), someone will take it off my hands. However, no one wants to list the unit at $0. So I suspect that those in the know realize that the unit is worthless, or less.

BTW, it's "dire STRAITS," not straights. Joe

I feel this topic has been beaten to death and is getting rather nasty. Everyone has given their advice and anyone reading this topic will definitely have a lot of food for thought.

Thank you for your contributions to this topic.

Marty