Ripoff - Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Program - New Point System

Dear g333s,

Very late but I have three questions, hope you can answer them:

1.- Lets say I only buy 500 points of the trust (They told me it was the least as they sold them in units of 500). Would I have full access to the trust units with my whole 6,000 points (I have 5,500 destinations points if I choose to enroll my weeks as they have told me) or only my new 500 trust points would have access to the new resorts they develop? I mean could you only buy 500 to get access to the full trust properties, or this will only depend if you choose to enroll or not, or send your weeks to destination points that year? (I know I should do the effort and buy 1,000 to get to premier but that is another story.)

2.- In the only E resorts lets say Cypress Harbour, which I happen to own, the trust or points owner can not get access if no one of the legacy owners in that resort sends their week to destinations points just as we dont have access to newly created resorts if we choose not to enroll?

3.- Your destinations points class (Classic, Premier, Premier Plus) depends if you decide to send the weeks that year or it doesnt matter? I mean could you be one year Premier Plus and the next Premier?

Regards,

I suggest that you call your Marriott Destinations Club Program Adviser to get your info. I just called my Marriott DC adviser and she said that a Destinations Club point is a point that can be used for any available room that is in the DC points program. I reminded her that I didn't purchase any extra Points - I just paid the $600 fee to enroll in the program itself. She said it doesn't matter, If they have the room available and I have the points she can book it. So I don't know where all the info that g333 writes is coming from but, as for my adviser she said she books trips daily with DC Points to Marriott Crystal shores, Marco Island with DC points holders like me who didn't buy any extra "trust" points. (As you heard Marco Island is mostly "Trust" because little was sold when this program began). She said new properties, when they are built, will be open to all DC points holders too. So since that is good for me I am sticking with my adviser.

Deleted

Just bought 3500 VCP today and my wife and I are pretty thrilled about it. We're first-time timeshare owners and we were pretty excited about the opportunities. We figure we'll mainly use our points to get somewhere warmer (while the Midwest is frozen) so we're looking forward to getting some cheap weeks in the off-season.

Just out of curiosity, how far out do you need to book with VCP? Is everything gone between 12 and 13 months out? Is it possible to buy properties from a third party and convert them to VCP points? There seem to be lots for sale on here and other similar sites. Can't help but think it may be cheaper than buying through MVC again.

Oh, and our salesperson DID disclose that MVCI is spinning off as a separate company soon and the current promotions will end on 11/3. We were able to buy in at $9.22 a point today if I recall correctly, and ended up with 100k MRP as a bonus (would have been 200k but we were on an encore prezo).

We haven't switched over to Points yet and I'm basically too afraid to. Don't totally understand it..speaking with Reps only confuse me more..We own a platinum week in Aruba. We usually end up depositing it and going somewhere else with II or go to Aruba during a different time frame that we own. Any suggestions? or should we just leave well enough alone. Do Maintenance fees go up with points too (if we don't buy any additional points)

Philid, I suggest you contact four zero seven, three zero one, six six four zero before your 10 day cxl period is over. The person at that number can get you your encore money credit, the 3500 points at $9.20 instead of the 9.22 and 250,000 marriott reward points. Not sure who you purchased from, but it's in your best interest to get the most for your money.

As for Louis, I suggest you enroll at the very least. I got an email from Marriott that said the enrollment fee will be " significantly" increasing. But who knows when that will be. Maybe on the 4th of November since that is when they are increasing the prices per point? I know the projected spin off date is set for nov 5th so it kinda makes sense.

As for why I encourage enrollment is simply because it simplifies fees associated with exchanging. Such as not having to pay for Interval's membership anymore. Or lock off fees, cxl fees, split week fees, converting to Marriott reward point fees, or internal exchange fees if using points. But you don't have to turn your week into points if you don't want to. You can enroll just to save a little and still use your weeks like you've been doing.

To the person that asked for clarity of the primier status, I am deeply sorry I did not get back to you. Life has been hectic to say the least. The trust is sold at a minimum of 1000 points. Not sure where you heard that you could buy just 500. As for the levels, 6500 ( exchange points, trust points, or any combination of the two) gets you to premiere status. It is not based upon how many points you can accrue ( utilizing the banking and borrowing) in a particular year, but rather the amount of points you own each year. For instance, if I owned 3500 points a year, I am not premiere. And f I choose to bank all my points into the following year, I would have 7000 points, but still not be considered premiere. The benefit that I can see of getting to that level is that you will be able to stay at the Ritz resorts. The ritz in Albaco for a full week in a cabana during this season is 1375 points. You can have enough points to go, but unless your at premiere or premiere plus, you won't have access. And besides, all the ritz and grand residences will be in the trust bucket. Every resort Marriott aquires or builds from now on will be only in the trust inventory bucket.

As for combining exchange points and trust points, you can not do it. For instance if a reservation requires 2000 trust points and you have 1000 trust points and 1000 exchange points, as an owner you can not combine them to get the reservation. However, Marriott can and does. Since they manage both buckets of inventory, they will use the trust portion of your points to ancore a reservation and the exchange points can be taken as a pending fulfillment of the reservation. When a trust owner elects to take anything other than another trust resort ( cruise, epic, MRP) then trust points become available. Marriott will then use those points to fulfill the reservation and take the exchange points as the payment. This is why it is important to have some sort of trust points on top of the exchange points. An owner who only has exchange points to offer will never get their reservation over the owner who does have trust points, even if it is only enough to anchor the reservation. And of course the owner who already has the required trust points will not have to wait for another trust owner to make trust points available. They will simply be able to make the desired reservation, no exchanging needed.

Oh, and two questions I did not address.

For the scenario of cypress harbor: if all cypress harbor legacy owners use their home resort, then no other legacy week owners at any other Marriott resort nor any trust owners can get in, prevailing cypress harbor is a sold out resort. However I do know that the legal documents of the trust that state which properties have trust inventory include cypress harbor. More than likely it is a very small percentage of cypress harbor that is trust inventory. Any reaquired inventory from foreclosures or units given back for whatever reason is turned into trust inventory and put into the trust. In this economy, more people give up a timeshare over their homes.

And as for maintenance fees....no changes to them if you just enroll. However if you puchase trust points, then you get a deed. Anytime you have a deed, you also have a maintenance fee. The maintenance fee for trust points are .40 per point. So the minimum trust ownership of 1000 points every year comes with a $400 a year maintenance fee. This is on top of whatever maintenance fee an owner already has with their legacy deeds.

In my opinion only: to the person that said the trust points are too expensive and they see little value to it, I have both legacy weeks and trust points. I paid less for my trust points than my legacy week, and get ownership of every resort in the trust now and all the ones in the future without having to pay more, verses the one deed my legacy week gives me. If I wanted another deed for my legacy resort, in the past I would have to buy another week. To me, I get more for my money now than before.

True that some resorts cost more for a week than my legacy week gives me ( like Hawaii) and in the old system, I could trade my week evenly for a week in Hawaii, prevailing it was available in interval. And in those cases I will use my legacy week still in that same fashion. But their are other resorts where I get 3 or 4 weeks with the points my legacy week gives me. In those cases it makes sense that I would use it in whatever fashion gives me the most for my ownership. And truthfully the resorts and weeks that are high point costs are not ones I would use in reality in either system. I don't go to Hawaii every year so I chose not to let those point costs turn me off to the entire program. And in every case, as long as I check in on a Sunday and stay six days instead of seven ( check out on Friday) the point cost is half off from the full week cost. It also leaves me enough points to do it again or two more times in some places. I am flexible and don't mind doing this if that means I can get more out of it. Some people however, are not as flexible or would rather not give up a day on their vacation even if it means getting another 6 days someplace else.

But again, I own both. I like both. Both systems are not perfect, but I have found that what one lacks the other does not and vise versa. So to me it made sense to buy both and have the best of both worlds to accomplish my vacation goals. To each their own.

Thank you for your response - it was quite helpful! However, my Interval membership is good until 12/2013 so I think I will just stick with what I'm currently doing (not the Points) until my membership runs out. Does that make sense to do?

Thanks g333s, I appreciate the time you take to clarify the doubts of all of us.

g333s, thank you thank you thank you for monitoring these forums and coming back time and time again to keep answering people's questions. MVCI probably has no idea how much you're helping out their owners but I'll send a few tweets their way and see what I can do :)

That said, I'm still within the 10-day period from purchase and I guess my biggest fear of being enrolled is not being able to actually spend my points. The contracts state multiple times that if you don't use them you lose them (assuming you didn't bank or cash out). I looked through the 438-page document outlining how many interests of each property were put into the trust and for some properties there are only 40 interests (total weeks). Unless legacy owners decide to enroll their weeks that means there are only 40 interests (weeks) available for booking at that property for all trust owners to split. Granted, these are usually at the less "desirable" properties but when the sales guy said "I could get you four weeks in the off-season" those were of course the types of properties he used as examples.

Obviously we were all sold on the flexibility of this new program but let's face it: Cashing out to MRP just doesn't make sense dollar-wise. Have you booked and used VCP yet? How far out did you have to call and schedule your week(s)? I know the main windows are 12 and 13 months out but what is the likelihood of finding somewhere to go on shorter notice (say a 2-4 months)? Have you had to lose any of your points yet?

Again, I really appreciate your dedication to helping people figure out how to make this program work. My wife and I are still really excited about our purchase but without having tried the booking process for ourselves I think we're a little skeptical about all the flexibility song and dance we got at the presentation.

We enrolled our weeks (5) at the beginning of the destinations program, deposited some, and have received the timeshares we wanted at Newport Villas immediately upon request using vacation club points. We have had equal success in trading thru Interval for other prime properties. I believe our success in getting the weeks wanted is the result of understanding the programs, the alternatives, and, planning way ahead. If you work the program early, I am convinced you can get what you want (and, we have done this).

The Marriott vacation club program is a high-end program. We own weeks and have acquired vacation club points. The properties are exceptional, expensive, and enable great and lasting experiences. It is sometimes hard for me to look beyond the expense; but when I do, I see great experiences shared with our children and grandchildren - 23 of us now. I'm glad we bought in. You can make the various options work to your advantage - use all of them.

g333s--

kathrynm here! I'm following this discussion, and again, many thanks for the time you take helping us. One issue did surface for me in this disccusion. You remember that my husband and I brought our three weeks into the Destinations Program but were not told anything about the option of buying trust points at our sales presentation in Aruba this past June. Our sales rep said our three weeks netted us 6,500 points with premier membership--and he clearly stated that the greatest reason to buy into the Destinations Program was that we would have access to all the new properties Marriott would build in the future which would not be available through II (as well as the Ritz). Now it sounds like that really is not the case--that we needed to have purchased trust points--not exchange points--to access that inventory. If that is indeed the case, what the heck did we buy when we bought into the Destinations Program??? What exactly will our 6,500 exchange points buy? Only the Marriott Resorts with exchange inventory? If so, didn't we already have that access without being in the Destinations Program? Do these sales reps know what the heck they are doing?

Hey there Katherynm! I get your frustration and I agree that not all reps have the correct info or may not be presenting the info clearly and accurately.

Depending on how your sales rep explains enrollment will dictate a lot of the misunderstanding.

For example, enrollment which cost $595 for one week or $695 for multiple weeks (unless it was a resale purchased before 6/20/2010 in which case enrollment is $1495 for one week and $1995 for multiple weeks. No resale purchased after 6/20/2010 will ever be eligible to enroll) does not give OWNERSHIP of the destination points. To have ownership requires a deed, and enrollment does not change what is on our deed, therefore we still own legacy weeks, not points with enrollment only. Enrollment does provide the legacy owner with the ability to elect destination points as a usage option, but to be clear, usage is not the same as ownership. That is why they are called Exchange points, because all the legacy owners who have elected points for their 2012 week can now exchange with each other much the same way we used to exchange our week with one another. The only difference is that we no longer have to go through Interval to do it, and we have move flexibility in terms of any day check in, any length of stay, any size villa and so on. Enrollment also means that Marriott will now pay for our Interval membership, as well as eliminate internal exchange fees, lock off fees, cxl fees, and even the fees associated with converting our week into Marriott reward points.

So enrollment gives FLEXIBILITY and cuts down on fees. As for ACCESS to Trust inventory; an owner will need a deed that entitles them ownership in the Trust.

This is mainly because the Trust is not an exchange based system, therefore our exchange points alone will not get us in. The Trust is a reservation system designed so that owners need not depend on using a peer's ownership in order to go where they want and when they want. It is a reservation system because a Trust owner literally owns a small part of every resort in the Trust. All they need to do is let Marriott know which of their home resorts they want to use.

As for premiere status, there are other benefits that have nothing to do with the Trust inventory. Such as being able to book 13 months out with no points premium charge to do so. You get 20% off any points reservation you make as long as it's within 7 days of booking, if you have the Marriott visa, you can get 40% off rentals, or 30% off if you don't have the visa. And there are certain cruises and epic trips that are only available to owners in that level.

It's true that only premiere and premiere plus owners will have access to the Ritz resorts, however those resorts will be only Trust resorts and even though you have the status, without being a trust owner, you don't have access to them.

If a trust owner has enough points to book a week at the Ritz but is not a premier owner, they will also not have access. Therefore to get into the ritz (resorts not talking about the hotels) you must have both the status as well as a trust deed.

I hope this cleared up the difference between what enrollment does for an owner and what purchasing Trust points does.

One last food for thought....it's true that we had access to exchange inventory before because all Marriott owners exchanged with interval. But every enrolled owner who chose to elect destination exchange points for their 2012 usage just decreased the available inventory in Interval for 2012 since they didn't deposit their week into I.I. And from my VOA, there were so many owners calling on the deadline day to elect exchange points, that Marriott extended the deadline for a week to accommodate the owners who couldn't get through. If you had not enrolled, you wouldn't have access to all the weeks that are now in the Marriott Exchange company instead of Interval. I predict that any owners who have not enrolled will be slightly upset when the realize just how many owners are no longer giving interval their weeks.

Phillid.

You are right that newer resorts have more inventory in the Trust than older resorts.

However the flexibility is real and in the case of newer properties that found the majority of their resort put in the trust, getting a reservation does not have to be planned very far out at all. I've been able to use my points to do a two nights at Marco Island's Crystal Shores for checking in the next week.

I am a procrastinator and therefore rarely like to plan far in advance. I never liked having to do the 12 month thing, but in some cases it was needed. I have not found that to be the case with the Trust points. Since the Trust is a reservation system like a hotel, then use the same common sense when booking....major holidays do not wait till last minute as well as high desired locations. Most of those trips won't be a spur of the moment thing anyway, but the more time you give the better.

As for me....I do mine usually within 3 months. But don't go by me....remember I am really flexible and not really picky.

So....just to clarify: if a Marriott legacy owner deposits their weeks through II, then the property goes into the II bucket (making the properties available to any II member--not just available for other Marriott owners), and if the legacy owner who is a member of the Destinations Program exchanges their week(s) with Marriott for that year for points, those properties go into the Marriott bucket to be available only to other Marriott owners with Destination exchange points? We've been lucky in the past going through II's Marriott Desk when we requested other Marriott properties, but have had no success when we wanted an exchange with II when trying to book a European property. I wonder Marriott doesn't just bag II altogether and just stay exclusively with Marriott resorts?

Kathrynm

You got it! Marriott won't take Interval away completely because owners may still want to trade to a non-Marriott resort. I prefer to stay at a Marriott but if I really want to go somewhere and marriott has no resort in the area, I have settled for a non-Marriott. However I did not think it was as nice :)

Just another clarification (based on one of your earlier responses to someone)--does the week that is deposited by a legacy member of the Destination exchange program go into the Marriott Trust bucket or might that week be available for another member in the exchange program?

g333s My wife and I just(2 days ago) purchased 2000 points and were getting cold feet until I googled marriott destinations and read all the posts, pro and con. You seem to be the person with the most answers so I am directing this to you. I am pretty sure we purchased the points in the "trust" as all of the papers we signed refer to the MVC Trust and we now have a new $800 maint fee to go along with our fee from our current Marriott unit in Park City. Does it sound like we are in the Trust? I do appreciate all I have learned from reading the posts as I think I learned more than all I received from the Marriott rep.

Thanks

Marriott is only selling vacation club points now and, yes, these points relate to participations in the trust.

We also recently bought vacation club points. While some have been critical of this program, we look forward to the benefits of combining this with our existing owned weeks. I hope you enjoy your vacation program.

Incidentally, the current 2,500 point deal is a better value - ask for a comparison.

Thanks for the info dennish144.

I have another question. If I turn my legacy unit for club points one year, can I combine them to use for a Destinations unit or a Legacy. I guess my question is if I combine the points in a year can the combined total be used on "either side of the fence" so to speak.