Ripoff - Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Program - New Point System

This is exactly why I got rid of my time shares. The rules keep changing. You need a law degree to figure out your rights. I can go on this and other sites and rent someones time share for less than it would cost in maintenance fees and no obligation every year. If I knew then what I know now I would never have purchased them in the first place. After they get everyone to buy points they will then change to stars or something else and make everyone pay more money. This is corporate greed at it's finest.

I happen to enjoy BMW's and I have had a number of them over the years. Now, a BMW is an expensive vehicle to buy and to maintain. Despite knowing this, I don't go around saying that BMW is rippinge me off or is greedy.

Marriott is a business, sells a premium product in the timeshare industry, and is expected to be profitable by it's shareholders. I guess I'm surprised by those who don't understand what they bought and then blame the company. Lots of the 400,000 timeshare owners, including Me, are not unhappy with their purchase. I also suspect that these parties have learned how to maximize their timeshare interests rather than sitting around moaning about what they bought.

@dennish144

I understand and respect your point. However what I strongly believe you are missing is that since a consumer signed up for Marriott Vacation Club, the program has been materially changed retroactively to the detriment of many ( probably most) vacation club owners. This is due to the impact of the Destination Points system has had on the ability for owners to make exchanges.

Let's take your BMW analogy. Yes you purchased it knowing it's a high standard auto, great brand name and fully aware of the cost. If you were lucky you probably negotiated a below sticker cost. However, continuing my analogy, let's say, for some reason after a couple of years of ownership, BMW suddenly announces, for whatever reason, all owners of BMW's with a six cylinder engine must be retroactively converted to a 4 cylinder engine. It's still a BMW, an excellent auto, gets you from A to B. However you still want and paid for a 6 cylinder. Would you buy another BMW from them? Would you think that is right? Wouldn't you be pissed? This is my point, Marriott made changes to the program under the convenient overarching guise of flexibility. As pointed out by many on this board once you get into the point system, the MVC product becomes more costly to implement an exchange

To continue, for MVC Destination Points program to be successful, Marriott wants/need to convert their deed owners to the point system. One of their corporate executives stated their objective is to get 95% of their MVC owners transitioned over to the DP in two years. BTW they have only been successful in convincing 25% of their owners to transition to DP so far. My point is with this shift in their business strategy and a major marketing push, Marriott has significantly reduced the ability of their MVC deed owners to make exchanges with Interval International. Their relationship with Interval is not the same, less Marriott inventory is being posted to Interval and as a result the ability to exchange has been significantly hindered as owners are being told to move to DP, for the "benefit" of greater flexibility. This product change has hindered the ability of most deed owners to make exchanges with IL as easy as before. The latest public information has Marriott having 50 Times Share properties. Interval has over 2,000 properties over 75 countries. As someone who purchased my vacation week on the basis I would be able to make exchanges thru Interval and was emphatically reassured there would be no problems as long as I gave II enough notice of my desire for an exchange, I stayed away from Hawaii in high demand weeks.....and btw, I was told, if I purchased a Platinum week my ability to make exchanges would be enhanced significantly. I have followed all instructions in the past years with great success. This year I was met with totally different results. Total disappointment. The launch of the DP program has changed everything as it relates to exchanges.

This is why I feel betrayed by Marriott.....a significant retroactive change was made to the MVC program that hurts many of the 400,000 MVC owners who were reassured that through Marriott relationship, exchange flow and addition of IL global properties, exchanges would be easy to execute. As my dear MVC rep stated" I have owners who never use/stay at their home resort ever. They exchange every year". Geez he was even showing us beautiful dioramas of Capri Italy as one of the exchange possibilities.

This is the point you are not considering; i.e. the ability to exchange was promoted as a key feature of ownership and it has been negatively affected. I fully understand that for MVC owners who own high point value Marriott destinations the DP program works fine. I assume you are one of them. But for the majority of owners who fall below this line of owning the most attractive Marriott properties, you're left in a situation where you are limited if you want to exchange. And please don't think for a moment this exchange factor was not a key part of the product offering at time of sale. It was and was hammered home over and over again

To restate my point: The MVC deeded product has been significantly changed, retroactively to the detriment of many, if not most of their owners. I'm NOT getting what I paid for is my point. You may be, but I'm not

Something's missing here. I have points in several different timeshare programs. Each ownership has points that equal a week of residency at that particular resort. That resort takes my points value, converts it back to the week I own then deposits that in Interval. I then go to Interval and select an available week. Does Marriott's system NOT do that? Bear in mind, the points you own relate to a specific week somewhere and regardless of points or weeks your trading power is governed by your home resort's desirability. Hence, a week or equivalent points at Shadow Ridge is NOT equal to a week in Marriott Maui. You probably have to add more points from somewhere to bring the equality to par. but, not having Marriott and not knowing what the "problem" is, I'm very happy with my ownerships and stay in top rate properties wherever I want to go.

"Each ownership has points that equal a week of residency at that particular resort."

For me this is exactly the point. The points value of exchanging your week are not equal to those needed to stay the same week.

In my case I receive 3075 points in exchange, but if I am to book the same week/season (after exchanging), I would need 3500 points to stay.

Before anyone states the obvious "you don't have to exchange to stay at your home resort", I am fully aware of this and I'm more interested in the fact that this is an unfair exchange system that does not provide you with the same number of points as are required to stay.

Frankd,

I disagree with you. First, you don't have to join. Period. It is an OPTION for you. You can just stay at your resort as you always have. You can still exchange with Interval International. That was what you were promised. You were never guaranteed you could stay at a Marriott. Never. You were not even guaranteed an exchange for that matter. It would be possible that you could not exchange when you wanted.

If you read your documents, you are getting what you paid for. Yes, you were told that you may be able to trade a studio for a 1 or 2 bedroom. That is still possible, but it was never guaranteed.

After you read your documents that you signed and you can find an untruth, then and only then can you share with everyone that they have changed anything.

No, I am not a Marriott employee just an owner like you.

@charles345, Everything you state is unassailable: a contract is a contract is a contract. I'm trying to work through my particular problem and chain of events with someone in MVC corporpate who knows her stuff. But I must say I feel betrayed by Marriott

For me, your response still raises the one key question that needs answering and makes a difference in my argument: Is the ease and chances to make resonable exchanges requestes easier now with Marriott and/or II or is it more difficult since the time I purchased my week with Marriott 2008? That is the answer I'm searching for. As I stated before, the exchange component of the product offering was very important to me and at the time of sale I was assurred this would not be an issue if I followed certain guidelines for requesting an exchange; which I did in the past with wonderful results. The exchanges even included holiday weeks at Marriott resorts south of the mason dixon line...

But based on my reading here and of various financial and industry trades plus comments other Marriott owners who feel as I do, the days of exchanging flexibility with II especially are gone. And this, I maintain, constitutes a" signficant retroactive change" made my MVCI.

I am totally aware there are segments of happy MVC owners out there who satisfied. Perhaps they are owners who always stay with their host property or own at the most attractive properties so the DP program does give them the flexibility touted by Marriott. But I venture to say the majority of us other owners feel otherwise. But no one will know if the other is right unless it is revealed if the exchange dynamics have been significantly changed/hindered.

Yes, I know I paid for my week and nothing changed as outlined in the contract. But like dealing with a used car dealer, my MVCI rep sold me on the "world is at your finger tips" with my ability to implement exchanges as a common occurrance. This is my point which you, and the other "you get what you pay for" group seem to disregard.

BTW I"m very happy you are satisfied owner. Mazel Tov. But right now I'm not and I believe the changes that have occurred to the exchange program allow me to question what is kosher as they say in Italy :)

Frankd,

As an MVCI owner, since they started in this business in the mid 1980s, I understand your concern that your exchange opportunity to other Marriott properties via II has been reduced with the advent of the Destination Points program. The ample number of Marriott exhanges to good destination until this year was in part due to the fact that prior to the start of DP ALL Marriott owned (un-sold) weeks were placed into II for weeks-to-weeks exchange (when Marriott did not rent them out). MVCI owners always had first access to these weeks for the first 30 or 60 days on II (I don't recall exact time). The DP program took in all Marriott unsold and new properties into a Trust with assigned week values. Those weeks and all future Marriott properties are now exchanged via II in the DP program.

This Marriott owned inventory, now part of the DP Trust, is primarily why you don't see as many exchange opportunities on II. As weeks owners, who number in the 10s of thousands, we still exhange via II by depositing a week and those are available to us before any non-Marriott owner. If we want access to the DP deposits as well we must consider becoming members of the DP program and exchanging our weeks for DP points and using them as that program rules require.

Marriott never promised us access to their un-sold inventory and they did not promise us they would continue to build new and better properties forever in the most in-demand locations. These have always been bonus weeks that Marriott could not rent out-right.

Thankfully they have elected to provide Marriot weeks owners with all that we signed up for in our contracts and for $600/week we can each join the new DP program and enjoy the benefits of both the past and new programs.

The decision is ours. I for one am happy, in a tough economy, Marriott did not leave the timeshare industry as most other developers have or worse declare bankruptcy and/or get taken over by groups like Diamond Resorts Inc.

I trust that as we learn to master the new programs in concert with our old trusted programs we will learn that Marriott still offers the best vacation options and experiences in the timeshare business.

Cheers,

Erman

Do you really believe that you're entitled to the same exchange value as an owner who invested more cash to own in a more desirable location? The only way you can get a better resort than the one you're giving up is to downgrade unit size or wait until 30 - 45 days out. While I sympathize with your plight, you must accept the reality of the situation. Trades through Interval are based on "like for like" or equivalent value. My 1966 VW will not get me a 2010 Mercedes as much as I'd like that!

I am not even going to go into the amount of one owner paying more than another. I believe the points program is more expensive for new owners and that deeded owners have the better deal. I don't believe there will be many people who can afford over 4000 points that it takes to stay in a Hawaii property. Frankd, is unhappy because he received good deals that are not as available now. It used to be that one could take a low demand season in the Marriott system and stay during high demand times in nice Marriott's. I can understand that being a bummer. It was a nice perk, an extra. Well, sometimes perks have to go away usually because of necessity. I have read on some forums that those did not seem fair.

I believe Marriott was already looking at other programs and realizing that through points they were losing out on money. I belong to Diamond Resorts and their system allows them to recycle points to do their exchange program. You must go through their Club program. I understand Disney has a points program too. So Marriott had to be thinking they were missing out.

In my opinion I just don't think owners should be betrayed because Marriott to Marriott exchanges are more difficult. When you were offered the world, you were given the Interval International book that had more than just Marriott properties. I believe that the Marriott Rewards points program is used more to sell properties more than the exchange system. Marriott sells. Shadow Ridge although a nice property but not like my Ko Olina property gets more points in its platinum season than my Ko Olina property. I remember the salesman trying to sell me how I can get rewards points every year to stay around the world in hotels. Here is where I would feel betrayed, because you actually sign paperwork that says you will receive a certain amount of reward points each year or every other year. However, on that same piece of paper it clearly states that Marriott can discontinue the Marriott's Rewards program. So you could be forced to deal with a change that you don't want there too.

I believe that instead of feeling betrayed, either face the fact that you need to exchange through II and realize you may not get a Marriott or join the DC program or stay at your home resort. The analogy above about the BMW six cylinder being down graded to a four cylinder is not similar to this. You bought and signed up for that six cylinder up front. It is stated on the contract from the beginning. Your timeshare only states you get the timeshare, no more no less. I have seen some real pluses to the DC program like availability during the holiday season. So don't rush to judgment on Marriott so quickly.

We own one week each in Marriott Newport coast villa and Palm Desert more than 15 years ago as deeded owners. Most recently we attended the presentation for owners. The sale's rep tried to get us to convert from a deeded week to their new point system plus $695 fee. After he told us what are the points we will receive from conversion, we found we do not have enough converted points and go back to our own resort for a week at the same time period. We purchased the best time including the new year and holiday. Becareful, you must find out what are the points you will get from exchange. Being a week owners, we get a week for a week no matter what the points required now and in the future. We learn from other point owners, they can not get back a week from the exchanged to points. The sale's rep try to sale on the flexibility for 3, 4, 5 days option. Unless you are going to the resorts near your home for 3-4 days, who wants to pay a long distance air fare for only 3-4 days. We are happy to keep our deeded week.

Hello Edwardl69,

First, they are not asking you to convert to points. You are not trading your deeded ownership for their DC points membership. What you are doing is adding the points option to you deeded week. As a result, you can choose to use your week as a week stay or change to DC points and take advantage of what the DC program has to offer.

You can stay at your same resort like you always have and make your reservation like you always have with no problem. You would not change to points if you plan on staying there.

You should have a fair amount of points with the two properties. You don't have to stay for only 3 or 4 days but suppose you want to stay for 11 or 12 days. That could be an advantage too. However, it's up to you how you use your points. You can also still use Interval International as you always have.

So what is the problem that you are having? Is it because you get less points at your resort than Marriott states it value is? That is not significant if everyone is experiencing the same thing in the system. Every member gets less points for their units than Marriott advertises as its worth.

Here's a suggestion MVCI should consider to improve the DP program for deeded owners who enroll their weeks in the deeded program. After exchanging a deeded week for DP points and owner elects to trade for a week long rental starting on Fri, Sat, or Sun the amount of charged points should be equal to the points provided to the deeded owner making the deposit. This would allow for those occasions when a the net exchange is between a deeded owner and another deeded owner similar to a weeks/weeks exchange via II. The difference is that the two owners were not able to predict how that year's exchange would become available (deposted as a week in II or as points in DP/II). Those using their DP points for shorter or longer stays, weekends or weekdays, one resort or multiple resorts would be charged the slightly higher points per day rate to account for the lost days or those at resorts in low deman.

Just an idea that MVCI should consider to make the new DP program even more inviting for weeks owners to join.

EC

I totally agree with you frankd119! I have the same complaint. I feel betrayed by Marriott and don't understand why we have no recourse as they completely changed timeshare that I bought into 12 years ago! The sales team definitely emphasized the exchange possibilities through II. And until last year, we never had a problem exchanging into a Marriott resort. Last year we didn't even take a vacation because my requests for exchange were never confirmed. I currently have an exchange request in for summer of 2012 and am keeping my fingers crossed. However, I am not confident I will get a confirmation since the inventory is not being deposited to Interval. This drastically changes my timeshare ownership and I am very upset about it. And for you owners who just purchased into the Destinations Program, don't be surprised if in 10 years Marriott changes the program again!

I am very unhappy with Marriott's changes to the program!

Trades thru II do still work as evidenced by our arrival today at Marriott's Kauai Beach Club. This is not our first trade and I suspect we were advantaged by our flexibility in dates and locations as well as deposit of a high value week in trade.

Frank & Kristine, can you really assert that your deposit week is aligned with the value of the week you are requesting?

they also never told us that the weeks expire!!! i bought them and i paid $1200 maintenance fee on top of that, but they can just erase them and give me NOTHING for my money! it's use it or lose it. that is not how i vacation and not what i was told in the presentation. my plan was to save up maybe 4 years worth of points and take a killer luxury vacation. now they say if i don't use it, i can push to next year, but that's all. after that if not used BOTH YEARS WOULD BE LOST. cannot keep forwarding the points to the next year repeatedly. that is stealing in my opinion. if i don't use the points this year in marriott rewards, they just sit there until i have accumulated enough to do what i want with them. i naturally ASSUMED the points worked the same way. this is my biggest complaint of all. but i definitely think marriott did this to rip us off overall too. i am one of those with lower demand resort weeks and have enjoyed for 20 weeks trading up. when i bought those salesman said all weeks "trade blind". what a deal it was for me. and then it took only 120,000 points for a week in ANY marriott hotel and 2 coach airfares to ANYWHERE. now it's 250,000 points and that's still not the top hotels i used to stay in. they have devalued the points in the other system and there is nothing going to stop them from doing the same in the new points system. only now it's worse. they just take them from you and give you NOTHING in exchange.

Ifrappia

This is really interesting. It sounds like you joined the vacation club with a purchase maybe even 20 years ago. Please tell us more about the original purchase, the price, the program/benefits, etc. Also, tell us about how the maintenance fees have changed. Is the first timeshare you purchased still up and running? Also, from your experience, tell us where you went for the best vacation you ever had using points and/or a timeshare.

I BOUGHT BEFORE THEY BROKE GROUND JUST FROM LOOKING AT A PICTURE OF WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE. I WAS SOOOOO HAPPY. I HAD MY DAUGHTER AND MY BROTHER AND FRIENDS AT WORK BUY SOME TOO! IT WAS GREAT FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS. THEN THE POINT CREEP STARTED. THEY TOOK AWAY MY FREE 1 WEEK RENTAL CAR PER WEEK OF OWNERSHIP. THEY TOOK AWAY MY 1 HOUR FREE PHONE CALLING CARD FOR WHEN I WAS TRAVELING. THE STARTED RAISING THE MAINTENANCE FEES. THEN THEY HIT ME WITH A HUGE, LIKE$3500, FEE TO UPDATE THE PROPERTY. I THOUGHT THAT WAS WHAT THE MAINTENANCE FEES WERE FOR? EVERY YEAR IT GETS WORSE AND WORSE.

ifrappia

Thanks for sharing your insight. You must have been a very early participant in the timeshare industry.

So, did Marriott start out with a point system and then revert to deeded properties? Did you buy from Marriott or from another timeshare company? What was the name of the property that you bought and where was it? Do you remember the year you started with timeshare?

Merry Christmas to everyone!

Dennis

MARRIOTT STARTED AS DEEDED WEEKS. IT IS ONLY IN THIS PAST YEAR THEY ARE SWITCHING TO POINTS. I BOUGHT FIRST IN DESERT SPRINGS FOR $5000 BLUE WEEK WITH LOCKOUT. GOT 4 OF THOSE BEFORE THEY EVEN BROKE GROUND ON THEM. SOLD THOSE FOR A PROFIT AND BOUGHT TWO SABAL PALMS INSTEAD. IN THE OLD DAYS I COULD TRADE MY BLUE WEEK FOR 2 COACH AIRFARES TO ANYWHERE AND 1 WEEK IN ANY HOTEL PLUS ONE WEEK FREE RENTAL CAR AND 1 HOUR PHONE CARD. FLEW TO HONG KONG AND STAYED AT JW MARRIOTT ON HONG KONG ISLAND ON THE 25TH FLOOR OVERLOOKING THE HARBOR. BEAUTIFUL HOTEL. ALL FREE. WE WENT TO CAIRO DITTO. WE HAD THE MOST INCREDIBLE ROOM AT THE GRAND FLORA MARRIOTT IN ROME AND FREE AIRFARE. EVERY YEAR WE HAD A FREE VACATION 2 COACH TICKETS TO ANYWHERE AND A WEEK IN ANY MARRIOTT HOTEL. ANY ONE!!

THEN THEY CHANGED TO POINTS THING WHERE NOW I CAN ONLY STAY AT COURTYARD OR MAYBE RESIDENCE INN. NO MORE GREAT HOTELS FOR ME. WHEN THESE WERE FIRST SOLD, THERE WAS A HUGE EMPHASIS ON THE TRADING OF THEM. "TRADED BLIND" IS WHAT SOLD US IN THE FIRST PLACE. IF IT WAS AVAILABLE, WE COULD STAY AT ANY MARRIOTT ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. AND WE NEVER GOT TURNED AWAY. NOW WE CAN'T EVEN GET IN IF WE HAVE ENOUGH POINTS. IT WAS SUCH A GREAT PROGRAM. IF YOU HADN'T BEEN WITH THEM 20 YEARS AND SEEN SOMETHING TAKEN AWAY FROM YOU ALMOST YEARLY, YOU REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW ALL THE PROMISES FOR OUR RETIREMENT WHICH THEY SOLD TO US ARE GONE. WE THOUGHT WE WERE ALL SET. NOW WE JUST TURNED 65 AND CAN TRAVEL MORE AND THEY TOOK IT ALL AWAY.