Manhattan Club Lawsuit

william m,

i point no accusatory finger, but william, so many of your comments have the flavor of "plant" as a pervasive theme.

There must be many reasons people don't join Zimmerman. I for one am happy with my situation. Sure, I wish the fees were not going up so much. (I will probably be accused of being a plant.)

I guess that most owners do not know about Zimmerman. Why? Most don't subscribe to Red Week. I guess that's why you are trying to get the owners list. I have mixed feelings about that. It would be nice to communicate with other owners, for lots of reasons. However, can you imagine how often Chris V. would call, email, write (in ALL CAPS) other owners? Do owners have an expectation of privacy? I don't know the answer to that.

Some are so sure that the rental income goes into Eichner's pocket. How do you know this? If true, it seems that it could be the basis for legal action.

At least Chris is concerned and upset as I am. Not sure why you’re not upset about a 400% increase in maintenance fees and also paid a rather large sum for our timeshare week. I’m sure u realize that our timeshares are worthless and held hostage with these maintenance fees. Either you're independently wealthy or no self awareness on what a awful investment this is?

it appears to be time for us owners to consider filing another complaint with a brand new, new york state attorney general , letitia james. it is imperative that she is made aware/ reminded of the continuing criminally fraudulent actions of TMC despite the court rulings that they continue to defy.............directly. there is no secrecy regarding their continuing to act against court orders. they will get away with whatever they are not challenged about. they remain deceitful without any signs of letting up. our plight could go on forever, even with private, legal representation. it is worth the effort to file again on the formal nysag complaint form. if you wish to re-file your complaints, include that TMC is defying former nysag court (settlement) orders. copy and paste the following on your address bar. it's very convenient to file online. consider including the refusal of TMC to give us an owners' contact list in your complaint filing.

as gail j very aptly points out:

"My company also developed condominiums and there was always a list provided to every owner that contained the names and addresses of all the owners." TMC was developed as a TIMESHARE which is similar in structure to a condominium. TMC still remains a timeshare, and as such, all owners should have access to other owners' contact information. this information should be made available immediately.

your thoughts..............?

copy/paste the following for the NYSAG's form.

https://formsnym.ag.ny.gov/OAGOnlineSubmissionForm/faces/OAGREFHome;jsessionid=g1XMbRMVdWU5AlZZltkHHzh68m2e5kg3reqM2J-lfpJ6VDYPmZSv!1456038597

William - I am totally baffled as to how you could be happy with the present situation. You answered one of your own questions as to why one would join the Zimmerman law suit and that is - How do you know the rental monies are going into Eichner's pocket? How do you think we owners will get that answer and more unless we do proceed with litigation? The list of owners is warranted and hopefully, a judge will make it available. Suppose there are other issues we owners are interested in - how do we get a large contingency to get on board with us if no one else knows what those issues are? The Board is stacked so how do we ever get any justice or any changes made if we don't have a substantial number of owners seeking the same resolve? None of the board members are going to pay any attention to some complaints or suggestions from just a hand full of owners? There is strength in numbers so how else do we make changes on the Board or vet potential Board members if we have no contact between the owners? I've owned condominiums and own one now and I've always been provided a directory with the names and addresses of all the owners. My company also developed condominiums and there was always a list provided to every owner that contained the names and addresses of all the owners. So - how is a timeshare any different - how are privacy issues any different.? As for Chris V - his motive is to help all owners by exposing some of the many wrongs by the developer and working with us to achieve some justice There are always more people joining this site and very, very few have the time or desire to wade through hundreds of previous postings. Chris V helps explain. If you don't want to read his postings, some might suggest that you have 2 choices (1) skip over his postings or (2) remove yourself from this web site.

Why is it some people always resort to "my way or the highway?" I'm sure that's not the limit of your persuasive skills.

Perhaps this thread wouldn't be "hundreds of posts" (actually 5500) and 277 pages if contributors replied to the topic instead of replying to the message! Which Chris has been asked to do numerous times by many different posters. And if some contributors, didn't feel obligated to answer every question with their opinion as is it were fact. Saying "I'm not an attorney but..." still implies some special knowledge or qualification, which I have yet to see demonstrated.

I have owned condo's and timeshares and have never seen a list of all owners. Board Members, yes; individual owners, no. Which in the case of the MC would be as many as 15,000 names, and would become public knowledge in a heartbeat if it were made available. The MC is on solid ground in not releasing its list. I don't want 10 emails every day from companies offering to get me out of the Manhattan Club! Where it goes wrong is in charging an outrageous fee to facilitate a mailing through a third party. And that is what is being litigated.

I am glad that JMZ is involved; but I wouldn't expect too much more work from him, even with the possible contingency fee, unless he has enough clients or finds an investor who likes the odds to fund the case. Contingency fees are where the real money comes in for winning attorneys, but they don't generally invest too much of their own money in getting justice. Because money spent by the attorney on a lost case is lost money; he can't go back to you afterwards.

I know folks here followed the AG's investigation and really enjoy reviewing the testimony ad infinitum. But the investigation did not start here and the AG settled without bringing criminal charges. I can't imagine why a new AG would reopen a settled matter where the state has already spent years of time and hundreds of thousands - maybe millions - of dollars to reach a settlement.

But soldier on! I won't give you an ultimatum to skip my post or unsubscribe.

Chris V what is your role in this chat room?do you have some special insights into the future of our Manhatten Club ?please let us know if you just find this forum a place to pretend you are superior to the rest of us,you and some others are boring and doing nothing to improve the image of the Club.Please let the settlement reached by the attorney general on our behalf work its way through the 3 year of the settlement .With new management our club will prosper and people who do not pay their contracted fees will be prosecuted and their credit status down graded .NO FREE RIDES HERE.Lets hear more from the owners who enjoyed their time at this GREAT club.I am sick and tired from this negative drum beat.

hello christopher f82,

my role/goal in this chat room is as a trusted TMC owner respondent. my goals are to simply to offer suggestions/considerations for other owners to better our horrendous, fraud-filled situation created and continued by TMC. that's it. i'm not merlin or a know-it-all, but simply a hopeful mover for equitable change in our current undesirable state. i claim no superiority; i'm simply a helpful responder offering ideas to consider for the benefit of all. if some choose not to accept my ideas, i welcome their comments to work toward the same goal: the betterment of our ownership rights as TMC timeshare owners.

your transparent role in this forum (chat room) appears to be contrary to my stated raison d'etre. this is so obvious, and i do not wish you luck in your attempts to glamorize and endorse TMC. what it really is: a fraudulent entity, extremely hurtful to all owners in good faith! your obviously slanted comments appear to define your purpose here. they can be read and ignored, or simply ignored altogether, their source being considered.

christopherf82 wrote:

Chris V what is your role in this chat room?do you have some special insights into the future of our Manhatten Club ?please let us know if you just find this forum a place to pretend you are superior to the rest of us,you and some others are boring and doing nothing to improve the image of the Club.Please let the settlement reached by the attorney general on our behalf work its way through the 3 year of the settlement .With new management our club will prosper and people who do not pay their contracted fees will be prosecuted and their credit status down graded .NO FREE RIDES HERE.Lets hear more from the owners who enjoyed their time at this GREAT club.I am sick and tired from this neg ative drum beat.

People, please stop! You are not going to get back your investment in TMC. The NYAG made a case and settled. A small payment was distributed. I received $400+ last year, contacted the NYAG and never heard back. My story is like many others. Your "middle class" and wanted to find a way to vacation at nice places with a better price. You wanted to go for dinner and see a Broadway play in NYC. You bought a timeshare in NYC at a price you thought would be a good investment. Then TMC made the rooms public at a discounted rate and the MF double each year. Your investment just tanked and you are locked into it without any clear way out. Now you don't know what to do. Do you keep paying? or just stop? Do you lawyer up or try to keep contacting the NYAG? The truth is, this is only effecting you and nobody else cares. The wealthy owner doesn't care, the NYAG doesn't care and the lawyer you are hoping will get you restitution does not care. So the money you invested is gone. I invested money that my father left me when he passed away. It stings, it sucks, but I, like many of you have to go to work everyday, take care of the family, deal with other crap in life. You are going to attempt to take on the wealthy with a legal battle that you have slim to no chance of succeeding and will lose more money. The timeshare industry has flown under the radar of legal, media and social attention for so long that it is only getting more corrupt. So what do you do? I stopped paying. Not going to send another dime or pay a lawyer to tell me I could win, less than I invested in legal counsel. So what else can you do? You could do your research about the people making the decisions at TMC. Read articles about who they are and what there interests are. Where else do they have property? What family do they have and what are they like? Where else do they do business? You find out as much as you can and then you "reach out" to the people surrounding someone like Mr. Ian Bruce Eichner. You contact his family, his doorman, the real estate agents dealing with his properties, his favorite restaurant or artist and so on. With so many owners at TMC, it could be a real issue for someone and possibly influence a reasonable settlement for what TMC has done to so many of us. That is how you effect someone who is wealthy enough to ** on you in court. So get to work and stop putting your attention into this repetitive, stupid forum.

hello, david p

your comments, some of which ring true, are indicative of a defeatist stance. basically, you say, "f*** it and get over it," and you make partially accurate points. we are all current financial (and otherwise) losers concerning how TMC has beat us down in the past and is continuing to do so. yes, this forum may be repetitive, but not stupid. it full of defrauded people who want to continue to find ways to recoup our losses. at the end of the day, we will find the way to do so. please join us in a cohesive and possibly victorious movement vs TMC. if not, we acknowledge your choice and hope you get over it without regret.

davidp1102 wrote:

People, please stop! You are not going to get back your investment in TMC. The NYAG made a case and settled. A small payment was distributed. I received $400+ last year, contacted the NYAG and never heard back. My story is like many others. Your "middle class" and wanted to find a way to vacation at nice places with a better price. You wanted to go for dinner and see a Broadway play in NYC. You bought a timeshare in NYC at a price you thought would be a good investment. Then TMC made the rooms public at a discounted rate and the MF double each year. "Oh ****!", your investment just tanked and you are locked into it without any clear way out. Now you don't know what to do. Do you keep paying? or just stop? Do you lawyer up or try to keep contacting the NYAG? The truth is, this is only effecting you and nobody else cares. The wealthy owner doesn't care, the NYAG doesn't care and the lawyer you are hoping will get you restitution does not care. So the money you invested is gone. I invested money that my father left me when he passed away. It stings, it sucks, but I, like many of you have to go to work everyday, take care of the family, deal with other crap in life. You are going to attempt to take on the wealthy with a legal battle that you have slim to no chance of succeeding and will lose more money. The timeshare industry has flown under the radar of legal, media and social attention for so long that it is only getting more corrupt. So what do you do? I stopped paying. Not going to send another dime or pay a lawyer to tell me I could win, less than I invested in legal counsel. So what else can you do? You could do your research about the people making the decisions at TMC. Read articles about who they are and what there interests are. Where else do they have property? What family do they have and what are they like? Where else do they do business? You find out as much as you can and then you "reach out" to the people surrounding someone like Mr. Ian Bruce Eichner. You contact his family, his doorman, the real estate agents dealing with his properties, his favorite restaurant or artist and so on. With so many owners at TMC, it could be a real issue for someone and possibly influence a reasonable settlement for what TMC has done to so many of us. That is how you effect someone who is wealthy enough to **** on you in court. So get to work and stop putting your attention into this repetitive, stupid forum.

Gail J, there are vast differences between condos and time shares. I live in two condos and have in the past been presidents of both. They both distribute owners and renters lists. The condo residents are your friends and neighbors. You socialize, you celebrate with them, you mourn with them, you help each other, etc. This is obviously not true with timeshare owners. How many TMC owners do you even know what they look like. Unless you are all on a fixed week, you can't possibly know more than just a few--if any. There is no need to distribute to each of us, the thousands of names, addresses, etc of all owners.

The only thing I would support is one board member agreeing to have this information and using it to distribute messages to all. Can you imagine what some of the people who post on Red Week would do with the info?

Lastly, I do not question Chris V's motives. I do question his intensity, and his SCREAMING in caps about things which he can't possibly be sure of. I surely don't want him to have my address, phone number and email address.

dear David, most of us share your anger and frustration with all the crap the MC has put us through. What seemed to be a way for middle class folks to enjoy a piece of the "good life" was destroyed by their greed and left us with no dates, high fees, and the loss of the value of our total investment down to perhaps $100 at best. PLEASE consider this.... someone ultimatly wants to keep control of this building as the real estate is still worth millions. Someone will buy out our shares for $100 and resell in future for many thousands or sell entire building . If you give up now... you loose, they gain. Some want to high pay fees for "more than inexpensive hotel room option.... fine their choice ...I prefer not to continue to feed the rats that have taken everything away from me. PLEASE consider... the last good chance we have is to hire Zimmerman for $1250 to represent you. HE does care because he stands to make millions if successful through the contingency fees. If you ever bought a lottery ticket, I am convinced our odds are far better at a real win, If you dont get involved and he wins a settlement for me and others who paid, you will probably get nothing.... How would you feel if you get screwed again .. Think about it... No one had been able to respond to my question yet, Unless we hire Zimmerman to represent us what other chance do we have for recovery of this most valuable asset?

an fyi to all TMC owners,

sources indicate the strong possibility that there is new, strict national legislation pending regarding consumer fraud in the timeshare industry. details to follow pending further information as it becomes available.

Nathan - are you a developer of condos. - are you an attorney? Well, for myself, I can answer yes to both and you are totally wrong that the list of owners is legally protected. 100% wrong. You perhaps never got a list because you obviously did not ask for one. I presently own a very high end luxury villa ( which in Florida is a very upscale condo) - it is the second one that I have owned at Longboat Key, Florida, and I and the other owners have ALWAYS - I repeat - ALWAYS been given a list of all the owners with their home addresses, and their phone numbers.My company also had a management division which managed condominiums and a list of the owners was always 100 % of the time made available to all the owners. Perhaps the condos. that you owned were less expensive and not managed by a professional management company and more importantly, perhaps you did not desire to know who the other owners are. But we shall see if the Zimmerman law firm is successful in obtaining a list. How you can claim privacy is absurd. With condos., you can generally find out who the owner is by going to the tax records unless it is held in a trust, a corporation, or a L.L.C. If that were the case, the secretary of state would then be able to tell you who the agent of record is. . Timeshare ownership is certainly a lower category of ownership so why should it receive privacy protection when second homes, condominiums, primary homes, businesses do not?. I would venture to say perhaps many would not want it to be divulged that they owned a timeshare at the Manhattan Club because they would be too embarrassed for anyone to know they had fallen victim to a scam by Eichner and his cronies. And the new Attorney General can reopen the case if the terms of the settlement have been breached, if new evidence of fraudulent activity is discovered, or if either side was discovered to have been lying under oath during negotiation of the settlement. And lastly, Nathanz2 , we ARE the Manhattan Club - you act as though the Manhattan Club is some entity with no connection to the owners. WE own the building, WE own the ground underneath the building, and We should be in charge of the management. So who are you referring to when you say "The MC is on solid ground in not releasing the list?"

Then get off the forum - why are you even on it, davidp1102? What do you suggest this forum be for? Oh - maybe to post about the opening of a new Broadway play that you've just seen and think was wonderful or perhaps you've dined at a new restaurant in the Big Apple and want to share your views about what to order??? Again - Why are you on here? I'd like to point out that had it not been because of this forum and similar ones, in all probability there wouldn't have been an investigation by the NY Attorney General. I was contacted by the A. G. numerous times via phone and asked to relay my story. Had I not known of others experiencing similar problems with the Manhattan Club, I wouldn't have become involved in pursuing the investigation. I would have thought it was a waste of my time and that maybe there were just a couple of us who had issues with our purchase. This forum has served a useful purpose - that is how most of us have learned about the Zimmerman firm and weighed the pros and cons of retaining that firm.

gail j,

you struck resounding and substantive chords in your responses to david p and nathan z's commentaries. christopher f's comments could also use a definitive rebuttal from you. i have responded to david p and christopher f. nathan z probably means well, but i stopped responding to his comments, as they usually are unfounded authoritarian posts.

on the other hand, we are wasting precious time rebutting each other on this forum (i admit to that error.) TMC probably enjoys seeing us disagree with one another. don't think they are not monitoring this redweek.com forum. we need to show a cohesive and united front rather than a fragmented group of owners. i am confident that there are "plants" on this forum who sing the praises of TMC trying to get us involved in their erroneous line of thinking. "plants" are becoming transparent and easily recognized. i have responded to them in the past, but i will try to refrain from future rebuttals to their comments. we need to act together to combat the common enemy that has defrauded us and continues to do so in defiance of the terms of the former ag's settlement.

we will develop a planned strategy/committee to work on becoming a strong legal force against the TMC fraud we continue to experience. this will be achieved with creativity and in a clandestine manner, to diminish the possibility of infiltration of "enemy entities," i.e., TMC and its sympathizers. there are several trusted people who have joined a TMC owners' group. they have responded favorably to our efforts and can be called upon for support. keep in mind that their contact information is totally secure and private (unless they authorize third party use of it in writing.) this and other undisclosed legal methods and strategies are key components to achieve our goal of developing a forceful, cohesive legal body working on releasing of us from the fraudulent TMC clutches and to receive all the benefits that this release entails. this strategy will include all current legal representation as leaders in presenting our cases to powerful court authorities as determined by these legal experts. their experience and expertise are other key elements to reach ultimate victory over being defrauded by TMC. their no-nonsense approach will serve us owners well toward victory in as little time as possible, with consideration for the courts' schedules. we will be unified to achieve our goals. we must do this rather than criticizing each other which is obviously and totally unproductive to reigning over TMC.

Attorney Jean-Marc Zimmerman has just filed more legal documents in response to TMC’s attempt to get the court to dismiss shareholder and board candidateTucker’s lawsuit to acquire TMC owners’ mailing/email list. As you can see from the DropBox documents, Zimmerman is continuing to aggressively pursue action against TMC on behalf of his clients.

Exhibit 1 contains Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure documents received last month by a TMC member which shows that TMC and two Eichner-controlled entities (O. Park and T. Park) are all involved in the improper transfer of timeshare interests to BlueGreen, in direct violation of their agreement with the NY Attorney General, the Assurance of Discontinuance, or AOD.

I encourage everyone to take a few minutes and read Zimmerman’s filings against TMC. Don’t be left out of any future financial settlement. Everyone on this site who hopes to gain any measure of justice as a result of the fraudulent conduct of TMC should contact Zimmerman at jmz@tmcsuit.com, or (908) 768-6408 and ask them to represent you, too!

Here is the DropBox link to the recent filing by Jean-Marc Zimmerman “Tucker vs TMC Letter Motion for Leave to File Sur-Reply.” Just click on the link, or copy and paste this link into your browser address bar to read the most recent filing.

Link Removed

Bob Biello

Gail,

I do not need to be schooled on the difference between a developer/sponsor, owners association and management company. Except for small condo associations, almost all contract with outside managers to run the operations of the condominium. Regarding timeshares, almost all use outside managers. The problem at the MC is that the sponsor controls the board, which governs the association, which contracts the management. So all three entities are composed of the same people wearing different hats. In addition, the Manhattan Club is a complex enterprise which will always require a sales function as well as a short term rental component for association owned time or owner time in default. In aggregate we are the Manhattan Club, but like most people here, I use "MC" to refer to the group in control.

As far as releasing the owner list, just because you can access owner records at the registry of deeds does not obligate the association to do likewise. The MC Owners Association is a private entity. I don't believe it is subject to open records laws. The same records which are public at the registry are private in the hands of the association. But you're the attorney. The judge seems to agree with the MC on that point so far and has only granted JMZ a mailing, not possession of the list.

Gail, I don't claim to be an attorney. However in my life experience both sides - win or lose -are represented by attorneys. So far, the MC has done well in the courts. The only place our interests have prevailed at all has been in the AG's settlement, which is still in the process of being played out.

I can understand why a developer and attorney must be especially galled to be caught up in an unpleasant situation like this. I don't brag about it either. But even if someone offered to buy the building for $30 million, that would amount to about $2000 per week for 300 units. If you think $10,000 is an equitable settlement, that's $150 million. Anybody think its worth $150 million?

And given the Siamese nature of the MC building and the Park Central Hotel, who would buy the MC building without an agreement in place for the Park Central? (Besides Eichner, that is)

So instead of engaging with all this Pollyanna talk about how justice will prevail and everyone made whole, what is a good realistic outcome? Maintenance fees are not dropping. This is 2019, not the 1980's or 90's or whenever folks bought in. Compare costs at the MC to the Wyndham, the Phillips Club or any other timeshare in NYC. What exit strategies need to be in place for those who want out, and what governance, budget and reservation structure needs to be implemented for those who stay?.

Doing this does not depend on the sponsor or the management company for permission, only on the owners association. I'm sure it will require a vote by all owners - and probably a law firm to redraft the by-laws.

As a developer, these ideas should appeal to you. But they will require more work from many owners than the current endless venting, calls for "retribution", continuously accusing others of being plants, etc., etc.

Thanks Bob!... This is the first I'm seeing this...This certainly answers the question I have seen here a few times..."What happened to the 100 dollar buy out deal?" In my best Scooby voice.."Ruh Roh"...lol

Chris--Who is guaranteeing the personal info will be kept confidential? I know you don't want to respond to me because you think (or just say) that I'm a plant. But this is an important question that needs answering.

chrisv126 wrote:

gail j,

you struck resounding and substantive chords in your responses to david p and nathan z's commentaries. christopher f's comments could also use a definitive rebuttal from you. i have responded to david p and christopher f. nathan z probably means well, but i stopped responding to his comments, as they usually are unfounded authoritarian posts.

on the other hand, we are wasting precious time rebutting each other on this forum (i admit to that error.) TMC probably enjoys seeing us disagree with one another. don't think they are not monitoring this redweek.com forum. we need to show a cohesive and united front rather than a fragmented group of owners. i am confident that there are "plants" on this forum who sing the praises of TMC trying to get us involved in their erroneous line of thinking. "plants" are becoming transparent and easily recognized. i have responded to them in the past, but i will try to refrain from future rebuttals to their comments. we need to act together to combat the common enemy that has defrauded us and continues to do so in defiance of the terms of the former ag's settlement.

we will develop a planned strategy/committee to work on becoming a strong legal force against the TMC fraud we continue to experience. this will be achieved with creativity and in a clandestine manner, to diminish the possibility of infiltration of "enemy entities," i.e., TMC and its sympathizers. there are several trusted people who have joined a TMC owners' group. they have responded favorably to our efforts and can be called upon for support. keep in mind that their contact information is totally secure and private (unless they authorize third party use of it in writing.) this and other undisclosed legal methods and strategies are key components to achieve our goal of developing a forceful, cohesive legal body working on releasing of us from the fraudulent TMC clutches and to receive all the benefits that this release entails. this strategy will include all current legal representation as leaders in presenting our cases to powerful court authorities as determined by these legal experts. their experience and expertise are other key elements to reach ultimate victory over being defrauded by TMC. their no-nonsense approach will serve us owners well toward victory in as little time as possible, with consideration for the courts' schedules. we will be unified to achieve our goals. we must do this rather than criticizing each other which is obviously and totally unproductive to reigning over TMC.

William, I think he is referring to his "Coalition". We haven't heard about it for a long time.