Original Message:
Re: I worked at a timeshare SCAM....I want to tell you about it. (by Beck):
I have a response farther down about proof of sales when paying up front fees. In the past Marty has deleted my posts where I list my contact info. Maybe Marty will allow this post since people have to contact me thru a RW ad; anyone who wants to inquire to rent my ad http://www.redweek.com/posting/R416945 could also ask me to send proof of the sales I have completed due to up front fee transactions.
Since I wrote so much below, I want to say first I feel most companies and possibly every company charging large up front fees are not likely to result in the sale or rental of a unit. There is too much evidence these companies do not provide the services they claim to be providing. I'm not agreeing they are all scams, although I agree most are and possibly all are. Some of it depends on what the word large means. I've paid SMTN on average $100 to $200 per listing and since more than a third of my listings resulted in sales and most of my listings resulted in multiple rentals I feel SMTN is a valid site. I accept the agrument their sales staff is at times less than authentic. A first time listing now costs $200-$900 and maybe that is too much but that doesn't make the site a scam. I'll talk about UMS later as well. My experiance was touch and go. Maybe it won't work for other people. All I'm saying is that if you believe the lies and aren't careful you will probably be very disappointed. I haven't been scammed yet. I listen to what they say, and when I don't like the holes in their contract or statements I say "no". So far when I say "yes" it usually works out well and when it doesn't it is not due to the misguided statements offered by the sales staff. Although it appears I have had a few problems because I relied on direct sales timeshare people, but that is a different matter.
JayJay, thanks for recognizing a website such as Redweek who is charging small up front fees is not a scam. It sounds like you are willing to also concur most small fee companies are probably not scams regardless of whether a listing with that company results in the sale or rental of a timeshare. For the most part those companies run a type of classified listing which is dependant on how many people read the items for sale/rent and are stimulated into making an inquiry which might lead to a purchase. In many cases paying those companies will not result in the sale of your unit even though they do market the units for sale and/or rent. There are too many other factors which also affect the outcome. One important factor is the company's ability to expose your unit to potential customers, or a specific type of customer (ebay attracts a specific type of customer). Much of the remaining factors depend on what the owner does. Pricing, for example.
What then is your definition of a scam? Any company who says or implies in any way you can rent or sell your timeshare for an unrealistic price? Any company who charges too much for the listing/service? Any company who has no intention of providing the service owners pay for? Or any company who implies they can get your unit sold/rented that you pay money to and then your unit doesn't sell/rent?
I consider a scam as follows: Any company who does not intend to market your unit with the intention to work towards getting your unit sold/rented. Redweek and SMTN both work to improve their internet presence in order to bring more people to their sites to view, inquire and hopefully complete deals with owners. That's their responsibility regardless of what the sales staff says to you about what your unit is worth. It is then the owners' responsibility to price their unit, respond to inquiries, and effectively convince thru negotiation and "sales stimulation" to convince a customer to agree to a deal. It's the owners' responsibility to learn and know what to do. These are tough words. People feel scammed when they rely on the sales staff for what to do and the sales staff say things which are not entirely accurate in order to convince the owners to list. But really the owners made an error in judgement and I am just as guilty of this. I provide an example in the next paragraph!
I agree SMTN sales staff have embellished a number of points to me. They at times represented offers made on their site to owners are somewhat like negotiated prices. Apparently people believe these misrepresentations and then call SMTN a scam. I agree these actions are dishonest. But this type of misreprresentation is perpetuated upon us all the time. Do you really believe using AXE deoderant will cause a large increase in women taking interest in you? Yes? Then you've been scammed by AXE deoderant. Does AXE make you smell more attractive than other deoderants and possibly help increase in your interpersonal relations? Yes, absolutely! OK, I don't want to be called an AXE shill, I was joking! It really depend on you to evaluate if the statements are realistic and valid. If it's too good to be true, don't falling for it! Decide instead if there is anyhting valid in what's being offered and only if there is should you accept. SMTN is similar to the AXE concept. They offer a viable classified style website where you have the ability to get your unit rented or sold. Are you willing to pay their price? That's up to you. Will your unit sell on SMTN? Maybe, maybe not. Is SMTN better than other sites? It depends, but the same can be said for RedWeek and all other companies who are legitimate.
I wish you not insinuat I am a shill merely because I disagreed with you initially. In your challenge to me today you changed your argument but imply I'm a shill even though I hadn't responded to your new argument. Your response to me sounds a lot like you have agreed with me on a base level (you now agree low up front fee companies are not necessarily scams which was a part of my initial statement) yet you chose to accentuate "large up front fees" which we have not discussed in order to continue disagreeing where you can. How much then is a large up front fee? You have not specifically contested my statements I sold on SMTN which is known to charge $200 to $900 up front. Are these large fees or not? Are you saling their sales process is a scam, the fees are a scam, or that the entire function of SMTN is a scam?
PLEASE, I wish to be clear. I do not intend to ever pay $900 up front in order to rent or sell a timeshare. Heck, I haven't paid (on average to a specific company) more than $300/unit for advertising/selling and I hate paying that unless I have a very high assurance the payment results in the sale of a unit. I make this choice not because I feel $900 is a scam. I make this choice because I feel $900 up front to list a unit for sale/rent is too large an amount to pay for an item worth less than $20,000. Even more so since most of the timeshares I've sold have been between $400 and $5,000.
Here I am then, completely willing to prove I have paid up front fees which resulted in the sale of timeshares. I'm shocked you are so confident no one has ever paid a large up front fee and been able to sell a timeshare. It's done on SMTN which is an up front fee site. They would not likely be so large if they were not enabling bookings and sales to occur.
I have sold multiple timeshares thru the ads I paid for on SellMyTimeshareNow, primarily The Historic Powhatan Resort, Scottsdale Villa Mirage, and I believe Sedona Summit or The Ridge on Sedona Golf Resort. I can fax a copy of e-mail, contracts, and deeds (where I block out the customer last name and contact info) which verifies I was contacted thru SMTN and that the transaction was completed. I'd prefer someone who lives in Orange County come over to my house so I can just show the docs, but I realize most of you will not be living near me.
While I have listed units for sale on Redweek I have not yet sold any thru this website but I have rented some units to people. I've had great success renting from other owners on this site!
I paid Universal Marketing Solutions $3,400 to buy or otherwise enable another buyer to buy 11 of my timeshares, pretty much all at once. I do not recommend UMS due to the complexity of the transaction but I did in fact sell 11 timeshares where I paid an up front fee $3,400 and was paid $23k plus maintenance for 11 units.
I'm not a shill, please don't call me one because I disagree with you.