selling time shares without using a title company

hi everybody i'm a memeber of redweek, and i look at some of the commets that you guys post and i'm seeing the one were people are talking about that ibd company. Well just wanted to share some news with you most timeshares that you sell dont need a title company. what you have to do is call were you own at and ask them how can you sell your own time share without a title company. I did it with one of my timeshare and the deal went through just fine... It saves money and you are cutting the middle man out. Its just like selling real-estate were you dont need that agent....

anisew wrote:

hi everybody i'm a memeber of redweek, and i look at some of the commets that you guys post and i'm seeing the one were people are talking about that ibd company. Well just wanted to share some news with you most timeshares that you sell dont need a title company. what you have to do is call were you own at and ask them how can you sell your own time share without a title company. I did it with one of my timeshare and the deal went through just fine... It saves money and you are cutting the middle man out. Its just like selling real-estate were you dont need that agent....

With due respect, your analogy comparing the role of a title company with that of an real estate agent is totally wrong. These are separate and distinct functions. An agent represents one party, typically the seller, whereas a title company in effect represents both. The title company using an attorney examines the title of the property being sold and identifies any outstanding assessments, liens, and impendiments in the title. These are pointed out to the buyer who expects them to be cured prior to closing. The title company then issues a title policy to the buyer assuring them (insuring) that there are no unpaid assessments etc other than those disclosed.

It is true that you don't need an agent to sell a residence, for example, where the buyer and seller negotiate their own deal without a third party. But, the buyer of residential real estate is a fool to acquire real property without a title policy. Sure, I have sold real estate without title insurance but I sure wouldn't buy real estate including a timeshare without a title policy. I am aware of horror stories of those novices who purchased timeshares without a title search and later learned there were unpaid maintenance fees for prior years.

I think what you are trying to say is that an individual can buy a timeshare without a formal closing, without a third party escrow agent, and without a title policy. I agree that can be done and the buyer is a fool.

anisew wrote:

hi everybody i'm a memeber of redweek, and i look at some of the commets that you guys post and i'm seeing the one were people are talking about that ibd company. Well just wanted to share some news with you most timeshares that you sell dont need a title company. what you have to do is call were you own at and ask them how can you sell your own time share without a title company. I did it with one of my timeshare and the deal went through just fine... It saves money and you are cutting the middle man out. Its just like selling real-estate were you dont need that agent....

I never bought title insurance on any of the 9 timeshares we owned, but I did contact the resorts asking if the seller WAS the owner and if they had any liens or past due maintenance fees. This is really all one needs to do and it's called due diligence .... really no need for purchasing title insurance

anisew states (only partly correctly), quoted only in pertinent part:

>> Well just wanted to share some news with you most timeshares that you sell dont need a title company. what you have to do is call were you own at and ask them how can you sell your own time share without a title company. I did it with one of my timeshare and the deal went through just fine<<

Sorry, but you are incorrect on several counts here, as has already been partially made known to you:

First, the parasite company under discussion here (IBD Marketing) is not any form of a title company in the first place -- they are nothing more than a high priced advertiser with no ability (and no or legal authority) to be involved in any way in any closing. Entities involved in closings are called closing companies. A title company is something else entirely, being an entity which offers and sells title insurance (which not all closing companies can offer) and likely some attorney review. Title insurance is expensive and *legally* unnecessary in ANY state, and perhaps not cost effective for a very low priced timeshare. Title insurance alone (without closing costs) generally costs around $150 -- $300.

Second, it depends entirely upon the individual state as to whether you can "close" on a timeshare sale on your own (i.e., without a closing company). Some states (South Carolina is one example) overtly and specifically require an attorney to handle the closing. Most don't. In ANY scenario, a new deed must still be *properly* prepared and approriately recorded for the new buyer to take legal ownership.

Third, many resorts decline / refuse to get involved in resale matters in any way, shape or form, so contacting your resort to sell is only occasionally an option at all. Exceptions include resorts which have a resale office on site or an affiliation with the resale office of a management company owning several different resorts. Such resale offices are certainly a stastistical minority in the overall timeshare industry picture today.

You have undoubtedly described your own experience in your "shared news" regarding selling a timeshare, but I submit that your observations are an incomplete portion of the bigger picture of various state law requirements, closing companies, title companies and title insurance. With all due respect, it might have been better (and certainly much more correct) to simply state that "....no one needs to pay a marketing company in order to find a buyer for their timeshare....". After that correct statement, the devil is in the subsequent details.

jayjay wrote:

anisew wrote:

hi everybody i'm a memeber of redweek, and i look at some of the commets that you guys post and i'm seeing the one were people are talking about that ibd company. Well just wanted to share some news with you most timeshares that you sell dont need a title company. what you have to do is call were you own at and ask them how can you sell your own time share without a title company. I did it with one of my timeshare and the deal went through just fine... It saves money and you are cutting the middle man out. Its just like selling real-estate were you dont need that agent....

I never bought title insurance on any of the 9 timeshares we owned, but I did contact the resorts asking if the seller WAS the owner and if they had any liens or past due maintenance fees. This is really all one needs to do and it's called due diligence .... really no need for purchasing title insurance

I personally do not consider a call to a resort "asking if the seller WAS the owner and if they had any liens or past due maintenance fees" to constitute "due diligence". A title search requires a visit (or call) to the court house and examining a title is a legal function. As has often been said, "The person who represents himself in a legal matter has a fool for an attorney". Typical title insurance on the sale of a timeshare is $130-$150 based on my experience. This is a small price to pay for peace of mind especially when one pays >$15,000 to a developer.

carvana wrote:

I personally do not consider a call to a resort "asking if the seller WAS the owner and if they had any liens or past due maintenance fees" to constitute "due diligence". A title search requires a visit (or call) to the court house and examining a title is a legal function. As has often been said, "The person who represents himself in a legal matter has a fool for an attorney". Typical title insurance on the sale of a timeshare is $130-$150 based on my experience. This is a small price to pay for peace of mind especially when one pays >$15,000 to a developer.

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. If one calls the resort to verify that the seller is the owner then that constitutes that he/she has a clear title. Otherwise the timeshare and title wouldn't be in the seller's name at the resort.

Also, one can do a title search themselves by calling the county deed department where the timeshare/resort is located. No need to throw away good money for a title search when that's something you can easily do yourself.

And, why would anyone feel the need to do a title search for a developer bought timeshare?

jayjay wrote:

carvana wrote:

I personally do not consider a call to a resort "asking if the seller WAS the owner and if they had any liens or past due maintenance fees" to constitute "due diligence". A title search requires a visit (or call) to the court house and examining a title is a legal function. As has often been said, "The person who represents himself in a legal matter has a fool for an attorney". Typical title insurance on the sale of a timeshare is $130-$150 based on my experience. This is a small price to pay for peace of mind especially when one pays >$15,000 to a developer.

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. If one calls the resort to verify that the seller is the owner then that constitutes that he/she has a clear title. Otherwise the timeshare and title wouldn't be in the seller's name at the resort.

The seller could have previously transferred the title to an adult child and recorded the deed without notifying the resort of the title change. The original owner could then sell the property to you and a call to the resort would not disclose the change in owners.

Also, one can do a title search themselves by calling the county deed department where the timeshare/resort is located. No need to throw away good money for a title search when that's something you can easily do yourself.

It sounds like you are beginning to agree with me which is a good sign. In your earlier post you did not indicate your due diligence involved anything more than contacting the resort. Still, unless you are experienced in title searches you and the $10 clerk you are talking to at the court house could overlook something as significant as a Federal Tax Lien. Having to pay the IRS for someone else's tax debt to avoid losing your timeshare could sure ruin your day!

And, why would anyone feel the need to do a title search for a developer bought timeshare?

Many reasons. The most obvious that comes to mind is with the developer who borrows money and secures the loan with a deed of trust on the land he is developing. He later sells you a timeshare. You have a warranty deed and see no need for a title policy because afterall you are buying from a developer. Later the developer runs into financial trouble and the mortgagee forecloses on his deed of trust which is superior to your deed. You lose your timeshare. Certainly this is not likely to happen with a Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, and so on but it has happened in the past with shady developers.

I applaud your past efforts here to alert folks to the dangers of paying upfront fees to marketing companies or dealing with "post card" companies. But, I think it is dangerous to suggest to folks that buying a title policy is throwing good money away. In the professional world - CPA or Attorney - that type of advice could be malpractice.

carvana wrote:

jayjay wrote:

carvana wrote:

I personally do not consider a call to a resort "asking if the seller WAS the owner and if they had any liens or past due maintenance fees" to constitute "due diligence". A title search requires a visit (or call) to the court house and examining a title is a legal function. As has often been said, "The person who represents himself in a legal matter has a fool for an attorney". Typical title insurance on the sale of a timeshare is $130-$150 based on my experience. This is a small price to pay for peace of mind especially when one pays >$15,000 to a developer.

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. If one calls the resort to verify that the seller is the owner then that constitutes that he/she has a clear title. Otherwise the timeshare and title wouldn't be in the seller's name at the resort.

The seller could have previously transferred the title to an adult child and recorded the deed without notifying the resort of the title change. The original owner could then sell the property to you and a call to the resort would not disclose the change in owners.

Also, one can do a title search themselves by calling the county deed department where the timeshare/resort is located. No need to throw away good money for a title search when that's something you can easily do yourself.

It sounds like you are beginning to agree with me which is a good sign. In your earlier post you did not indicate your due diligence involved anything more than contacting the resort. Still, unless you are experienced in title searches you and the $10 clerk you are talking to at the court house could overlook something as significant as a Federal Tax Lien. Having to pay the IRS for someone else's tax debt to avoid losing your timeshare could sure ruin your day!

And, why would anyone feel the need to do a title search for a developer bought timeshare?

Many reasons. The most obvious that comes to mind is with the developer who borrows money and secures the loan with a deed of trust on the land he is developing. He later sells you a timeshare. You have a warranty deed and see no need for a title policy because afterall you are buying from a developer. Later the developer runs into financial trouble and the mortgagee forecloses on his deed of trust which is superior to your deed. You lose your timeshare. Certainly this is not likely to happen with a Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, and so on but it has happened in the past with shady developers.

I applaud your past efforts here to alert folks to the dangers of paying upfront fees to marketing companies or dealing with "post card" companies. But, I think it is dangerous to suggest to folks that buying a title policy is throwing good money away. In the professional world - CPA or Attorney - that type of advice could be malpractice.

anisew claims, quoted in pertinent part:

>> Every thing that you said is what i was trying to get at but, i like to write short hand and hopefulley people can read between the lines to understand what i'm saying<<

Right.......

With all due respect, incomplete and /or incorrect statements are different from "short hand". For people to gain knowledge and information in these Forums, no one should have to attempt "read between the lines" to understand or decipher what you claim to have been TRYING to say.

I understood completely what anisew said and I agree with her/him concerning title insurance.

I really don't care if people write in shorthand or are poor typists or spellers .... I just want them to come here to the Redweek forums and discuss timesharing in any form :o).

jayjay wrote:

I understood completely what anisew said and I agree with her/him concerning title insurance.

I really don't care if people write in shorthand or are poor typists or spellers .... I just want them to come here to the Redweek forums and discuss timesharing in any form :o).

anisew never actually mentioned title insurance (that topic arose later in the thread), but no matter. I try to avoid having people with limited knowledge about timeshare issues adopt incorrect / incomplete info as being "the truth". That said, I do respect your more open minded viewpoint.

deleted by jayjay

ken1193 wrote:

anisew never actually mentioned title insurance (that topic arose later in the thread), but no matter. I try to avoid having people with limited knowledge about timeshare issues adopt incorrect / incomplete info as being "the truth". That said, I do respect your more open minded viewpoint.

You are correct, he/she merely mentioned title companies not title insurance, but somehow the subject was changed to title insurance .... mea culpa!

jayjay wrote:

anisew wrote:

Well just wanted to share some news with you most timeshares that you sell dont need a TITLE company. what you have to do is call were you own at and ask them how can you sell your own time share without a TITLE company. I did it with one of my timeshare and the deal went through just fine... It saves money and you are cutting the middle man out. Its just like selling real-estate were you dont need that agent....

anisews original post above.

yes --- without the words "title insurance" stated ANYWHERE therein, which was exactly my point.

Perhaps it's a matter of misunderstood terminology.... In Florida, for example, all *non-timeshare* real estate transactions are completed through title companies. Title insurance may not be involved (or even available). In Massachusetts, as another example, title companies don't even exist at all (lawyers handle all real estate transactions). In timeshare transactions, closing entities are generally regarded and referred to as CLOSING companies (many of whom cannot and do not offer title insurance at all). As always, the devil is in the details...