Marriott Vacation Club point system

Does anyone know the answer to the following question?

I own a Newport Coast Villas platinum week which I deposit for 3,475 points. I then want to use points for this same reservation and it requires 4,700 points. Why are the extra points required and where do they go?

I have asked Marriott this and the typical answer is "why would you convert and then use the points at your home resort?" My response is "why not?"

I can think of a couple answers as follows:

1. Breakage - could it be that the point system is inefficient and there are unused days that must be paid for under the points system?

2. Absorb Overhead - could it be that the Trust extracts extra points to cover overhead expenses from week owners who elect to exchange using points? Thus, week owners would pay half again as much for access to point reservations.

3. Profit - Could Marriott Vacation Club require a commission (about 50% of points) to administer these trades?

Please let me know the right answer or answers. Someone out there must know......

I have asked your question dannish144 many times myself, and also always got a bad answer. It's clear that depositing for points, whether the same destination or not, is almost always (if not always) a losing proposition. It's sold as an advantage, another way to use your weeks, but, it's a waste of points really. Legacy weeks are better used where you own them, or traded depending on their trade value. I almost always get a far better value trading my lockoff. You can come out way ahead in some trades. Same for trading them for rewards points, you lose on that deal too.

Legacy weeks are not a bad deal at all if you use them correctly.

Perhaps buy your wording you know the answers. When Marriott went to a point system your one week being seven days became six days of points in many instances. Many of us can still use our one week if chosen early enough but if you vary from your week you may find and most likely find no availability. Now think about that one week maintenance fee going only for six days. Maybe you will have some points left over such as 175 points good for a night in Absecon, NJ. The Absecon location is available on Interval for as low as $39.00 per night. There is lawsuit against the Marriott Destinations regarding this loss of one day from the seven day week. Just think of Marriott gaining one day back for more rentals and no discount to the timeshare holders. Realistically the maintenance fees should be based upon day used.

I would think it would be a combination of 1-3. Another thing to remember is many if not most of the points systems have additional fees that go along with exchanging. Many have transaction fees ($29-$59 per reservation) and some have additional housekeeping fees (around $59 or so for each reservation beyond one per week used as points)

OK, Why pay the $1,900 annual maintenance fees to the Marriott Surf Club when you can rent via Interval International from $777.00 to $897.00 for a week in late August or September. Since you must be a member of Interval International perhaps buy the cheapest location you can find with the lowest maintenance fees and then receive the Interval Internal book and use it to your hearts content for The Marriott Aruba properties. You can even find bargains at the Playa Linda also a good Timeshare location in Palm Beach area Aruba.

Well, Sept would be hurricane season of course which I realize Aruba does not get as many. The $777 is for a 0 bedroom "villa" and Sept is off season according to II. Not necessarily the same as having a spot reserved long in advance if necessary. But the idea is a sound one, once you have access to II, you can certainly use the getaways all you want. I've used 4-5 in a single year before. But you can't compare $777 for 0 bedroom in Sept vs say a week in January or February, high season. Not the same value, but yes IF you can get it too. That being said, I do go off season myself, just depends where and is it really a bad time of year. I don't go to the deserts, for example, in July or August but they sure are cheap! Nor do I go north in the winter, mostly as I do not ski, too old.

Just an Fyi - Tugbbs has a good survey of the happiness levels of Marriott owners. Some here might be surprised at the current totals.

I'm sure you don't rent a "0" bedroom using Interval otherwise you would sleep at the door and not worry about a riding up fee. Most likely it's the Surf Clun lock out room but still in a Marriott Aruba property. Hurricanes in Aruba? Maybe windy but no real rain problems until late November and early December.

Well, Interval notes it as 0 private bedroom, i.e., lockoff as you said (looking right at it on intervalworld.com). Hardly the same as comparing your maint fee for high season for an entire 2 bedroom unit vs renting a room in low season that is of hotel room size at best, i.e., the lockoff was my only point. It's very misleading to people as they assume it is as you say, but it is not. You are comparing two totally different things and I merely want to clarify that.

Interval lists the room as 0, not me. It's listed a 0 private bedrooms, 2 capacity on a regular bed, 2 on likely a sleeper sofa.

If you want to compare fairly, you would compare room rental in high season vs high season, with the same room size as you pay maint fee for. But saying you can rent it from II for $777 is not factually correct when you say you are comparing it to the maint fee. The maint fee is almost certainly not for a lockoff is it?

I get you are unhappy with what you agreed to and purchased, you've made that clear. But, do not turn to the same tactics as used by timeshare sellers and say things that are full of statements comparing unlike things. Making massive statements like you can always rent for lower than maint is simply not true. When you say things like "since anywhere else I can rent for a lot less than the $1,500. maintenance fees.". Really, *ANYWHERE*? I already gave you places where you could not do so, so, the statement is simply untrue.

As of right now, I can rent Aruba Ocean (or Surf) club at Getaway prices on II in low season for $777 for the lockoff, and, $1,057 for the 1 bedroom. So, combined that is $1,834 for an equivalent 2 bedroom for which you pay maint on (which I am assuming is what you own). This is straight from interval world, not wishful thinking or not a one time deal for one guy. So, you should be comparing $1,834 for your maint fee rental equivalent in low season vs your maint fee in high season. That's an equivalent comparison. Not so good a deal now is it? You said you paid $1,500, and, to rent in a lower season is $1,834. Where is the great deal?

Even if you are paying maint for only a 1 bedroom, no idea if that property does that, then, yes, renting in low season is cheaper than maint fee from high season. Is that not what you would expect? I would.

I have always said it is certainly possible sometimes to do as you say, it is possible at some places in some cases. I am sure everyone realizes that. But don't stretch that to make wild claims like anywhere, any time, and then compare a lockoff vs an entire unit! Isn't that a fair statement?

I think Michael's point is that it is less expensive to rent a timeshare than to own one (or to own points). It may not be true when compared to the maintenance fees alone but it is certainly true if one amortizes in some portion of the large upfront cost (a sunk cost) of purchasing a timeshare. Deeded timeshare is expensive and the points approach is absolutely the most expensive approach to timeshare.

We own weeks and points acquired through Marriott; and, we own weeks acquired privately. There is no doubt in my mind that the best deal is to acquire great weeks at great locations "privately." These weeks can be used, rented out, or traded through Interval.

My point is for the two of us a two bedroom is not necessary. Now does Marriott have a separate maintenance fee for a lock out? Sure I have used my points for a two bedroom gulf view Marco Island weekdays with spending my weekends at my heavily pointed Hilton, Thus I get two weeks or even more just using weekday points at a two bedroom. Still minimum maintenance fees with that Interval book are at least $1,500. In Marco and increasing every year by at least 5% being well above inflation. Don't forget the special assessments.

"We own weeks and points acquired through Marriott; and, we own weeks acquired privately. There is no doubt in my mind that the best deal is to acquire great weeks at great locations "privately." These weeks can be used, rented out, or traded through Interval."

Absolutely, I've always said that. And my point, without repeating it in detail with examples as I have already done this, is it's often cheaper *used properly and with forethought* to do that than rent, the exact opposite of Michaels point. As stated earlier, I am way ahead over renting, as in tens of thousands ahead. But I am not your typical owner either. Everyones needs are different, ages, travel styles, desires, whatever. So, one can not make blanket statements. I would never say everyone should buy a timeshare, far from it! I get where Michael is at, I really do, and for him, I am sure he's right. But, his comments about "always cheaper to rent", etc. are simply not true. For him with his usage, maybe so. I just want to clarify that it does not necessarily apply to you or anyone else, but it may. We all use differently.

Points are clearly the worst value, though, they also have some innovative purposes and can be bought pretty cheaply on the market used (and even got around Marriotts ROFR), which we did recently as we will be using a number of new techniques given the combination of ownership and points to game the system, legally of course. And our travel needs shall be vastly increasing. So, with our one expensive (relatively) ownership almost 2 decades ago, we are way ahead even at Marriotts price. But this was a bad decision anyway, not meaning to say it was good. And we added a lot of points recently which are admittedly not the best value, but, we have some uses for them. And the point cost for far more weeks than our ownership was less, even from 2 decades ago.

If I was only to use the Marriott system for vacations it would be a good deal. I also like to go to Las Vegas, Eastern Canada, Maine , California, etc. My Marriott destinations I will use for Aruba and maybe Marco Island. I have been a Marriott Vacations member for 12 years with one timeshare bought over the internet and one timeshare bought through the Marriott system.. One very big drawback with the Marriott timeshare vacation is finding the best airfare. I have a lot more discretion using a Hilton point system with changing dates to meet the best airfare or even on a house rental. Now with the airline seating being so bad we use business or first class. If you add up the cost of an economy plus seat more fit for human beings and also receiving a meal first or business class cost is almost the same.

We have been to quite a few presentations. We always decline because we don't want to spend more money, plus more maintenance fees for a couple of thousand points...which is about 2 weeks at a nice resort. Why spend $40,000 for 1000 points when you can spend less each year and go to many different places and not have annual maintenance fees plus your monthly fees to pay off these points. Like someone else had said, "It's a win, win for Marriott and a lose, lose for us."

I am now just renting my two weeks of time share with Marriott as the maintenance fees are double the amount since purchase. It was one of my poorest financial decisions to buy that timeshare.

Last year while using our Aruba Ocean Club timeshare we met a couple being senior citizens. They could not afford the $2,000 maintenance fee and airfares thus they offered us their Ocean Front two bedroom timeshare for $6,000 total. Being a senior citizen I worked out this math. If I used the Aruba Ocean Club 2 bedroom for five years the maintenance fees with the at least 5% inflation cost Marriott uses will add up to $11,000. The cost of the timeshare is $6,000. The five year cost of airfare is at least $1,000 per year or an additional $5,000. Divide $21,000 by five years at the cost for a one week stay in Aruba is $4,200 per year or $600,00 per day. Even on a 10 year use the cost per night is still over $525.00. Oops. Add in the Aruba utility cost per day now at at least $10.00 and I'm sure one special assessment the cost per day for five years exceeds $625.00. I can rent a penthouse apartment in the Gulf in Marco Island Florida for $133.00 per day in October and $233.00 per day in January or February or March.There are even bargain renting of a Marriott Aruba timeshare for as little as $1,500 per week or $215.00 per day.The Marriott timeshare salesman that tells you that you will use your timeshare for 40 years will most likely have numerous jobs over that period of time and it will not be in the timeshares business. Sure, maybe pass it on to your kids, but I bet that they still want you to pay the maintenance fees.

You have to realize that developers spend millions of dollars to create their sales pitch to the unsuspecting vacationers . There is a reason that they market this product to people who are in a euphoric state enjoying a vacation far from home. If this product was sold on the open market they would go out of business . They push the paperwork on people who are not in the mind set to research what they are purchasing. Usually by the time they return home and realize what they actually committed themselves to the rescission period has expired .

Timeshares are like buying an auto, but when you walk out of the door of a timeshare your investment is worth no more than 25% of what you paid. Foe me buying one over the internet for $9,000. 12 years ago and one from Marriott at $14,500. eight years ago has cut my per day cost significantly. It's like a pyramid scheme where those who own a Marriott timeshare and haved used it numerous times start getting their per day cost actually below that of a hotel. Still with maintenance fees at $1,500 for a one bedroom before you think of amortizing your timeshare cost the per day cost is $214,00. Perhaps I can sell my Marriott Ocean Club timeshares at $8,000. each. At this time I enjoy using them. I would not dare use my timeshare exchange for other than Aruba, Marco Island, Florida and Newport California. Anywhere else within the United States can be rented for as little as $103.00. per day. I have done this in Breckenridge, CO. Somewhere in the future I'm sure that Marriott will sell off their timeshare corporation including the name and then what?

"Anywhere else within the United States can be rented for as little as $103.00. per day."

Please, this coming February, rent desert spring villas 2, 2 bedroom, for $103 per day. Please. I want to see you do it. After all, that is "anywhere" else isn't it?

Of *course* you can rent Breckenridge at times for $103 per day! Always depends on the time of year of course. I love going to Colorado in summer myself. My per day cost on my close to 20 year old timeshare is $93.82, guess it depends where.

I said as little as $103.00 and other locations higher, but not $600.00 per night for the new purchaser of a timeshare.I beloved Absecon NJ is even less than $103..00 per night. Think of those purchasers who paid at least $12,000 to Marriott and still own $1,500 maintenance fee per year.

$12,000 to Marriott, recently? I would think way more?

In any case, I have zero regret from my purchase long ago, it turned out to be a very good deal for us. Despite the price. For many reasons. But it's less likely todays purchasers can come anywhere close to the same result. No doubt. Esp given the points program, hard to get into for any reasonable price even on the resale market unless you know what you are doing. The only "good" thing about points is it is likely, if you buy resale, you will be able to sell for what you purchased them for, unlike, the timeshares purchased from Marriott. But the value is just not like it used to be for ownership.

I came from a different generation and likely different background than many, we never had money at all growing up. So, I am in general very cheap. The people I see all around me, younger people, are not. I see things that cause my blood to boil far more than a timeshare purchase. People who "need" that $25,000+ SUV, yes, they must have it after all the kids might need to be driven somewhere. And in 3 years or so, another, except higher priced of course. I see friends and family spending hundreds of thousands on vehicles, for which you get usage, but, not much else, and talk about losing value. And the $1,000 "free" cell phone every year or 2, there goes another $10,000 in no time, esp when you count spouse, kids, etc. Oh, and, don't forget the ridiculous rates for that "free" phone, vs my $5 per month for my phone service. Have a friend who has a great deal, they are paying a mere $300 per month for cell phone service, but oh those "free" phones. Oh, and at our last reunion, I was informed how everyone needed some $400+ cooler now. Really, a $400 cooler, I about fainted. I can get one for $1. Sure, not as nice. But a cooler, which has limited uses really, many of those I see use it maybe 5 times a year. Maybe $30 for a decent one. But $400? So it has some great name on it, who cares! And so on. So, sure, waste is all around us. And far from just timeshares. Used to be computers, but, those are much cheaper now. But those are mere examples, I know people who can't live 1/4th as well for 5 times the money we spend. Timeshares can certainly make that list, but, are far from alone.

So, for us, I'd much rather be on some beach, or warm winter location, or whatever than driving some car, or using a brand new phone every few months or year. Given that we are fortunate and are able to spend that kind of time. And since we never had money growing up, like my dad, we drive many places. So, when we go to Williamsburg for 2 weeks in a few weeks, driving. Airfare not always needed, we enjoy the drive. And are fortunate enough to still be able to. Vacations for us are just about our fondest memories. And we vacation many times as much as we used to before buying. And that's fixing to grow next year. So many family and friends simply don't go. They are in the rat race.