TimeshareMLS.org resale scam

I finally found a company who I paid $1500.00 to take it off my hands. I was leary, but today I finally got my papers from the Christie Lodge that I was no longer an owner. gloriag 68. -

I've noticed that since my last update TimeShareMLS.org no longer posts the number of timeshare listings they have on their website. This could be for 2 reasons, 1) they're tired of me pointing out how much money they've scammed people out of by using their own listing figures or 2) more than likely the main reason is it isn't good for business when a potential victim of their fraud looks at the website and sees there are still over 3,300 listings on their website. For anyone who listens to their pitch when they claim " we have buyers lined up and ready to buy" and the"we help to sell hundreds of units a month" has to be asking themselves "if they've got a long line of buyers ready to fork over money for timeshares as fast as they can list them then why do they still have all those timeshares listed on their site???".

If you use the upfront scam companies logic then they should be struggling to get enough listings each week to keep up with the demand from the buyers and most definately they shouldn't have 3,300 ads on the site because the turnover due to timeshares being taken off the market from all the sales they've helped make would be incredible.

It has been nearly a year since CHL Marketing, Inc., aka, Timesharemls.org and Timesharefsbo.com has threatend me with a pending lawsuit in regards to my posts about their more than questionable companies. Well, I'm still waiting to hear from them in regards to the "slander and libel suit" as they put it.

Now I realize that there never was any legal actions coming my way from this advance fee timeshare resale marketing scam gang. They merely posted this on every website and forum I have written about them on as a feeble attempt to intimidate the numerous sites into removing my posts. I'm not sure why they thought any site would actually be moved by these intimidation attempts by CHL Marketing to remove one word.

I liken them to cockroaches, they don't really want any light shed on their shady business dealings, if they do get any light, such as the light of the law, they are best served to scurry back under the rocks from which they came. It's best for them to operate their scams under the veil of darkness. This is why this forum and the many others that are educating the unsuspecting timeshare owners are of great value.

Thanks to everyone that has written about their experiences and knowledge about the advance fee timeshare resale cockroaches.

Once again Jon, in your words, I'm committing "slander and libel" against your company, well, if it's true it's not slander.

garym172 wrote:

It has been nearly a year since CHL Marketing, Inc., aka, Timesharemls.org and Timesharefsbo.com has threatend me with a pending lawsuit in regards to my posts about their more than questionable companies. Well, I'm still waiting to hear from them in regards to the "slander and libel suit" as they put it.

Now I realize that there never was any legal actions coming my way from this advance fee timeshare resale marketing scam gang. They merely posted this on every website and forum I have written about them on as a feeble attempt to intimidate the numerous sites into removing my posts. I'm not sure why they thought any site would actually be moved by these intimidation attempts by CHL Marketing to remove one word.

I liken them to cockroaches, they don't really want any light shed on their shady business dealings, if they do get any light, such as the light of the law, they are best served to scurry back under the rocks from which they came. It's best for them to operate their scams under the veil of darkness. This is why this forum and the many others that are educating the unsuspecting timeshare owners are of great value.

Thanks to everyone that has written about their experiences and knowledge about the advance fee timeshare resale cockroaches.

Once again Jon, in your words, I'm committing "slander and libel" against your company, well, if it's true it's not slander.

I'm curious as to how they can use GMAC and the Arnold Palmer foundation. I too, have been waiting for a year without any further contact, once they had my money. When I called early on they would never call back or answer their phone. I continue to get calls from other companies wanting to sell my timeshare for a fee. Why have these "businesses" not been busted by now? Shame on the original time share places for not helping to resale or advise people where to resale their timeshares.

sherrym121 asks, in relevant part: >>Why have these "businesses" not been busted by now?<< ==================================================

These "businesses" are despicable parasites, but the answer to your question is nonetheless very simple --- they haven't been "busted" because they haven't actually broken any law.

These parasites convince desperate people to VOLUNTARILY make the CHOICE to pay them a ridiculously high "advertising fee" to advertise a timeshare. The timeshare does indeed then get "advertised" --- so they meet their one and only legal requirement. Unfortunately, the advertising itself is essentially worthless, being just an overpriced listing on an obscure web site which knowledgeable people would never take seriously. The advertised prices are also absurdly high --- many times higher than prices in the open resale market for the exact same week at the exact same place.

I despise ALL of these "upfront fee" maggots, but what they do is NOT illegal. It's unethical, despicable, deceitful and opportunistic --- but unfortunately NOT illegal. It will take federal regulation to eradicate these maggots by MAKING what they do against the law.

ken1193 wrote:

sherrym121 asks, in relevant part: >>Why have these "businesses" not been busted by now?<< ==================================================

These "businesses" are despicable parasites, but the answer to your question is nonetheless very simple --- they haven't been "busted" because they haven't actually broken any law.

These parasites convince desperate people to VOLUNTARILY make the CHOICE to pay them a ridiculously high "advertising fee" to advertise a timeshare. The timeshare does indeed then get "advertised" --- so they meet their one and only legal requirement. Unfortunately, the advertising itself is essentially worthless, being just an overpriced listing on an obscure web site which knowledgeable people would never take seriously. The advertised prices are also absurdly high --- many times higher than prices in the open resale market for the exact same week at the exact same place.

I despise ALL of these "upfront fee" maggots, but what they do is NOT illegal. It's unethical, despicable, deceitful and opportunistic --- but unfortunately NOT illegal. It will take federal regulation to eradicate these maggots by MAKING what they do against the law.

Ken, you're very knowledgeable in regards to timeshares and the legal system. You' always have a lot of very good input on the various threads. However, you have stated several times that what the advance fee timeshare companies do isn't illegal. I agree that selling overpriced worthless advertising on an obscure website isn't illegal and if these companies presented their services as a paid advertising website where timeshare owners could list their units without using misrepresentation to make the sale then they certainly would be legal. As we all know they don't do this.

These companies can't make a sale without claiming any number of misrepresentations that are flat out lies. These claims that entice a timeshare owner to hand over their money to an advance fee resale company are solely for the monetary gain of the sales rep and the resale company. Or in short, they are committing fraud to deceive a timeshareowner to give them money.

Websters definition of Fraud:

1 a: deceit, trickery; specifically : intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right b: an act of deceiving or misrepresenting : trick

When these companies cross the line into outrageous claims of someone being in the office right now who is looking for time at your resort, or you will get $30,000 for your unit or we've got so many people interested in your resort we guarantee it will be sold in 90 days or so forth and so on aren't they now committing fraud by definition?

I may be wrong but it seems they are certainly partaking in illegal activities when they do this.

garym172 wrote:

Websters definition of Fraud:

1 a: deceit, trickery; specifically : intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right b: an act of deceiving or misrepresenting : trick

When these companies cross the line into outrageous claims of someone being in the office right now who is looking for time at your resort, or you will get $30,000 for your unit or we've got so many people interested in your resort we guarantee it will be sold in 90 days or so forth and so on aren't they now committing fraud by definition?

I may be wrong but it seems they are certainly partaking in illegal activities when they do this.

gary, I agree with you 100%, but unless an investigative journalist from a news show such as 20/20 tapes all the lies told by these companies and airs them, then it's a moot point. What is said verbally doesn't hold water in a court of law. It would make my day if the fraud was exposed worldwide for all to see and hear.

garym172 wrote:

ken1193 wrote:

sherrym121 asks, in relevant part: >>Why have these "businesses" not been busted by now?<< ==================================================

These "businesses" are despicable parasites, but the answer to your question is nonetheless very simple --- they haven't been "busted" because they haven't actually broken any law.

These parasites convince desperate people to VOLUNTARILY make the CHOICE to pay them a ridiculously high "advertising fee" to advertise a timeshare. The timeshare does indeed then get "advertised" --- so they meet their one and only legal requirement. Unfortunately, the advertising itself is essentially worthless, being just an overpriced listing on an obscure web site which knowledgeable people would never take seriously. The advertised prices are also absurdly high --- many times higher than prices in the open resale market for the exact same week at the exact same place.

I despise ALL of these "upfront fee" maggots, but what they do is NOT illegal. It's unethical, despicable, deceitful and opportunistic --- but unfortunately NOT illegal. It will take federal regulation to eradicate these maggots by MAKING what they do against the law.

Ken, you're very knowledgeable in regards to timeshares and the legal system. You' always have a lot of very good input on the various threads. However, you have stated several times that what the advance fee timeshare companies do isn't illegal. I agree that selling overpriced worthless advertising on an obscure website isn't illegal and if these companies presented their services as a paid advertising website where timeshare owners could list their units without using misrepresentation to make the sale then they certainly would be legal. As we all know they don't do this.

These companies can't make a sale without claiming any number of misrepresentations that are flat out lies. These claims that entice a timeshare owner to hand over their money to an advance fee resale company are solely for the monetary gain of the sales rep and the resale company. Or in short, they are committing fraud to deceive a timeshareowner to give them money.

Websters definition of Fraud:

1 a: deceit, trickery; specifically : intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right b: an act of deceiving or misrepresenting : trick

When these companies cross the line into outrageous claims of someone being in the office right now who is looking for time at your resort, or you will get $30,000 for your unit or we've got so many people interested in your resort we guarantee it will be sold in 90 days or so forth and so on aren't they now committing fraud by definition?

I may be wrong but it seems they are certainly partaking in illegal activities when they do this.

I agree that the actions of upfront fee companies often constitute fraud. But, proving fraud is very difficult. These are usually verbal contracts handled over the phone with a desparate seller seeking to unload a bad mistake. The company promises to advertise the timeshare and you give verbal or tacit approval by giving them your credit card information. This is a binding verbal contract.

The upfront fee company records the portion of the conversation that protects them in the rare event you allege fraud. The portion of the conversation in which they make outlandish promises is not recorded and certainly never is reflected in a written contract. I suggest anyone talking to one of these charlatans record the entire conversation. I suspect that once you tell them you are recording the conversation you will suddenly lose contact with the up front fee salesman!

Yes, Jayjay, verbal contracts are legal. The statute of frauds found in the common law and in the statutory law of all 50 states provides that the conveyance of real estate must be in writing. But,a verbal contract to advertise property for sale for an upfront fee is perfectly legal. Fraud is never legal but again very difficult to prove unless you have a recording of the entire conversation. Otherwise it is a "he said" "she said" situation.

carvana wrote:

Yes, Jayjay, verbal contracts are legal.

How can verbal contracts be legally binding in a court of law when there's no written proof what was said?

jayjay wrote:

carvana wrote:

Yes, Jayjay, verbal contracts are legal.

How can verbal contracts be legally binding in a court of law when there's no written proof what was said?

You prove up a verbal contract with credible witnesses. This happens all the time. It is up to the jury to decide whether the one testifying under oath is believable. Certainly, it is best to reduce a contract to writing to eliminate confusion but verbal contracts occur all the time and I suspect you unknowingly engage in them yourself from time to time. Glad to contribute to your ongoing education!

carvana wrote:

You prove up a verbal contract with credible witnesses. This happens all the time. It is up to the jury to decide whether the one testifying under oath is believable. Certainly, it is best to reduce a contract to writing to eliminate confusion but verbal contracts occur all the time and I suspect you unknowingly engage in them yourself from time to time. Glad to contribute to your ongoing education!

I guess that's what TV shows like Judge Judy are all about? Thanks for the education :o)!

I was speaking in terms of upfront fee timeshare company scams (verbalized over the phone to a prospective client) and developer bought timeshares (verbalized in presentations to a prospective client) legalize where the written contract is the only legally binding script in a court of law. What was verbalized means nothing unless the prospective client taped the phone conversation or the presentation.

This is why I would love for an investigative journalist to take on the task of outting all lies told by salespeople in the timeshare industry. It would certainly be a major coup for the journalist's career and a major eye opener for the public.

jayjay wrote:

garym172 wrote:

I guess you must be losing some sales to get a feed back from you or whatever lacky you had post this. Thanks for that feedback. It's nice to know I am making a difference.

Yep, they must be losing sales due to the message that we've been putting out here on Redweek and that message is NEVER EVER PAY AN UPFRONT FEE TO A COMPANY TO SELL YOUR TIMESHARE. It's a total rip-off. WE ARE MAKING A DIFFERENCE BY EDUCATING THE PUBLIC.

Keep up the good work Gary. We need someone like you. I also was scammed (im not proud of this) But I will never fall for this again. Thanks to all of you maybe someone else wont be!

Thanks for your comment Teri.

I know there's a lot of us on the site such as JayJay, Ken and others that are trying to make a difference when it comes to warning and educating owners about these scams.

May I ask the name of the company that scammed you? It's good to get their names on forums that way if anyone does a search for their company specifically the results will show this forum associating them with a scam.

This message doesn't directly deal with Timesharemls.org and their scam but it relates to the whole advance fee resale scam and how it works.

I actually copied it from another forum and the writer states they are a former sales rep. for a company called resortvp.com aka Vacation Property Trader. The company did post a reply denying what the former employee had to say.

The post is interesting because once again it lets everyone know what goes on inside one of these scam operations.

Thanks to (former_resortvp_er) for the original post:

Hello everybody,

I was searching for my former employer today and ran across this website and a posting by someone who listed their timeshare with ResortVP. I used to work for those scum bags for almost 2 months when I figured out that they were just using me to scam people. I opologize if anyone reading this is one of my disatisfied customers but they are a complete scam. The company is located in Deerfield Beach, FL off of Hillsboro Blvd right before the intracoastal. Here is how the scam works...The owner Ely Alon buys lists of timeshare owners and hands them over to employees. Our job is to call them up and tell them anything we feel nesscesary aside from telling them we have a buyer in the parkinglot to convice them to pay hundreds of dollars upfront. The fee is whatever we feel we can get out of you and we are paid a commission of that money. Depending on how many people we scam and for how much determines our commission scale. It starts at 30% and goes all the way up to 50%. Once you pay us you will never hear from us again (as long as your contract is signed) unless you call us. However now you talk to someone else in customer service as the sales people never hav to talk to you again. The office is set up to look like we do tours but the truth is I never eber saw one person come in to take a tour. It is there for plain show. I encourage everyone to cancel and try to get their money back. I was fired once I started asking too many "hard" questions. I am not angry though. I am actually glad because now I have a real job. Granted I am no longer making $2,500 a week like I was but at least I know I am being paid an honest salary for an honest days work. People are also happy with the services we offer. BOTTOM LINE IS WWW.RESORTVP.COM OF RESORT VP aka VACATION PROPERTY TRADER IS A COMPLETE SCAM. i SINCERELY HOPE ELY ALON IS MISERABLE AND FINDS NO HAPPINESS FROM HIS ILLGOTTEN THOUSANDS! SCUM BAG Cry Cry Cry Cry

Former Employee

Here is reortvp.com's response to their former employee:

We're not surprised to hear this type of derogatory verbal abuse coming from this so-called former employee. First of all, everyone who works for Vacation Property Trader are honest, hard working people who love their job. In addition, we are the only company that offers training programs to educate all of our timeshare specialists. We also print out our complete website and credentials for each and every customer we deal with, which in turn gives them complete freedom to research our company history and previous customer satisfaction. We have been registered with the BBB since 2004 and to this day remain in good standing.

We take PRIDE in the fact that we speak with our customers every day; even customer's who go back a year and more, regardless of whether contracts are signed or not. We offer them superb customer support when they need it.

We are located less than half a mile from the ocean and we DO have a showroom with open houses and have large signs outside so that any tourists or potential buyers walking by know that we are here.

On top of that, Mr. Alon is not even the owner, so obviously that shows how uneducated this “former employee” is about our company. The only people that have ever been fired from VPTI were people that intentionally misrepresented our company for selfish reasons. It is obviously apparent that this “anonymous” poster trying to slander the name of his former employer with false accusations out of pure bitterness.

and finally the former resortvp.com employee addressing the response the company made to their original post:

Ely Alon,

You are right in the fact that you technically do not own the scam...I mean ompany. Your friend Douglas Myers owns the company as a "paper president" and or "silent partner".

You are also right in the fact that you do have a showroom (if you call that 12 foot by 12 foot area at the front of your office a showroom. However, why is it that noone ever actually attends the open houses? Be honest for once Ely and admit the fact that the "showroom" is only there for show purposes. That area of the office is only used by the employees to watch TV when on break and or tired of calling your beat up recycled leads. I'm sure everyone would love to see all the pictures of your "full open houses" that no one ever attends. Why are there no pictures of that on the site? You have pictures of everything else including you pretending to be on the phone closing a "big deal"?

Let us move on to the signs. Yes I admit that you did have some sandwhich signs made up that you did put outside. You are leaving out the fact that the city of Deerfield Beach came by and told you that you can NOT put them out. Furthermore those signs were only made as a ploy so you could put the pictures on your website so sellers would see them and think you actually did something other than put them on the website.

Let us move on to the BBB. Is it not true that anyone can call the BBB and say they have been open for such and such amount of time and the bureau does not validate it? Is it not true that as long as you respond to the complaints the BBB will never ever say anything negative about you other than the fact that you "Respond to all complaints..."?

Do you deny the fact that all you are is an advertising company that advertises properties on your website for an upfront fee? Do you deny the fact that the sales reps can charge pretty much whatever they feel they can get out of a customer thus letting to owners of the same resort pay a different amount becasue one rep was able to get one amount and another rep was able to get a different amount?

Ely why has everyone quit except for a few people? Of course the people that work there are honest hardworking people that love their job. Funny thing is you are the only one except for 3 at the most that work in your office that will easily seat 40 people. Everyone got tired of your beat up recycled leads and you cheating them out of their money. Why does your parking lot look like a ghost town? Why did I hear through the grapevine that you were moving furniture out and closing down shop to move to a new location?

Now lets tackle this person who supposedly sold their timeshare. I am sure they are so thankful for your wonderful service to humanity that they would have no problem showing the closing documents proving that your service found them a buyer. Why stop there? Prove me wrong and show some verifiable proof that shows how many listings you take on compared to how many have sold. That would not only discredit me but would also bolster sales for you. The world would see that you really get the job done. You know it and I know it. You will not show any proof becasue you have nothing to show. All you have to do is black out the name showing that someone paid $799 and 4 months later that same person received $15,000 for their westgate.

garym172 wrote:

Here is reortvp.com's response to their former employee:

We're not surprised to hear this type of derogatory verbal abuse coming from this so-called former employee. First of all, everyone who works for Vacation Property Trader are honest, hard working people who love their job. In addition, we are the only company that offers training programs to educate all of our timeshare specialists. We also print out our complete website and credentials for each and every customer we deal with, which in turn gives them complete freedom to research our company history and previous customer satisfaction. We have been registered with the BBB since 2004 and to this day remain in good standing.

We take PRIDE in the fact that we speak with our customers every day; even customer's who go back a year and more, regardless of whether contracts are signed or not. We offer them superb customer support when they need it.

We are located less than half a mile from the ocean and we DO have a showroom with open houses and have large signs outside so that any tourists or potential buyers walking by know that we are here.

On top of that, Mr. Alon is not even the owner, so obviously that shows how uneducated this “former employee” is about our company. The only people that have ever been fired from VPTI were people that intentionally misrepresented our company for selfish reasons. It is obviously apparent that this “anonymous” poster trying to slander the name of his former employer with false accusations out of pure bitterness.

The fact is if your company requires an upfront fee then you are a SCAM operation, period. No amount of your nonsensical rhetoric can deny that ONE fact.

For the record... We do not mind if any post are taken off of our forum as long as a link back to the forum is used. The posts about ResortVP aka Vacation Property Trader originally came from www.resaleripoffs.com. The actual thread containing that post is at http://resaleripoffs.com/reports/index.php?PHPSESSID=f567a89739005cc45fcbd8f23d5f8a19&topic=9.0

Furthermore if any of you have any timeshare resale horror stories please post about it on http://www.resaleripoffs.com. Who knows we may even investigate the company and get you a little justice!