Marriott System

bryceb wrote:

does anyone have an opinion of Ko Olina, Hawaii. Do you think it is overpriced for trading. or do you think I can purchase elsewhere and still get into marriott hawaii?

Fell in love with the place and purchased an every other yr 3 brdrm for best trade power. My lock out studio in Ko'Olina got me a 1 bedrm at Kauai Beach club. They told me that within the Hawaii timeshares they give preference. Just like the Fl timeshares w/in FL. It IS expensive if you intend to trade points, but for trade power, I was told ( and you can check the INT International book for demand) that the 3 Hawaii timeshares, (Maui, Waoihai-Kauai, and Ko'Olina ) had the highest demand and hence the highest trade power. Also, You Can get you 2 wks of vacation for trading one wk Hawaii. . They described the Waoihai resort as "the holy grail " of trades. Seems that putting the Hawaii resorts up against the Marriott residencies also had a better chance than other trades. Aruba seemed to be the next best trader (as per several different Marriott reps) I don't know, but it seems hard to go wrong with Hawaii !!!!

Hawaii is really several islands, and your own tastes will determine that which is preferred. A California or Alaska resident "might" like to visit on an annual basis, but the clientel who can pay for Marriott in Hawaii will also want to travel in Europe, Scandanavia, Asia, ....

It is probably a mistake to tie up the capital in Hawaii because "wanderlust " soons becomes a reality.

We are in/out of Kauai and Maui, and we own 10 weeks of timeshare at second market prices. Why pay the big bucks for "trading power." And Marriott is really the way to travel. But use some brainpower. There are plenty of ways to trade w/o spending the big $$$.

Remember Ko'Olina is on Oahu, and I can do Southern California at any time. There is not enough time in this life to visit Oahu. You really need to experience Kauai and Maui.

this is to Chuck13 Are you sure about losing the 24 day exclusion. this is the first time I have heard of this. I know you cannot get the Rewards, but have not heard of this before. Where did you hear of this

otard wrote:

this is to Chuck13 Are you sure about losing the 24 day exclusion. this is the first time I have heard of this. I know you cannot get the Rewards, but have not heard of this before. .....

I own both resale and developer Marriott units and state for a fact that you do not loose the 24 day privilege. I also own a non Marriott and can state for a fact that the privilege does exist as I check availability. Also, Las Vegas does NOT offer anything near the trading ability of Ko Olina.

I can book a trip to Las Vegas and stay at the Marriott Grand Chateau to morrow and/or any day because there is so much availability and not enough demand. That alone should give you an example to its trading power. I cannot say the same for Ko Olina, Waiohai or Maui.

It you are buying for points, he is right, Hawaii may not be the best answer. But you would have excellent trading power. I bought Waiohai resale and Legends Edge from Marriott. Legends Edge gives 100K points every year and has low annual fees. Manor club offers 115K points every year and has lower fees, but not where I wanted to go.

Good Luck

terry314 wrote:

otard wrote:

this is to Chuck13 Are you sure about losing the 24 day exclusion. this is the first time I have heard of this. I know you cannot get the Rewards, but have not heard of this before. .....

I own both resale and developer Marriott units and state for a fact that you do not loose the 24 day privilege. I also own a non Marriott and can state for a fact that the privilege does exist as I check availability. Also, Las Vegas does NOT offer anything near the trading ability of Ko Olina.

I can book a trip to Las Vegas and stay at the Marriott Grand Chateau to morrow and/or any day because there is so much availability and not enough demand. That alone should give you an example to its trading power. I cannot say the same for Ko Olina, Waiohai or Maui.

It you are buying for points, he is right, Hawaii may not be the best answer. But you would have excellent trading power. I bought Waiohai resale and Legends Edge from Marriott. Legends Edge gives 100K points every year and has low annual fees. Manor club offers 115K points every year and has lower fees, but not where I wanted to go.

Good Luck

I will echo the above comment as to the 24 day Marriott window being available on Marriott resales for I too have both a devloper purchase and a resale and I can attest to the fact that the resale also enjoys the 24 day window.

I can add that once a Marriott resale ceases to be a Marriott and one loses the 24 day window, it becomes much more difficult to successfully trade through II. I also warn that any buyer of a Marriott resale should be very careful to ensure him/herself that Marriott is not about to drop the resort. I have seen that happen in both Vail and Hilton Head and have observed that former Marriott resorts without the 24 day window lose a tremendous amount of value both for resale and for trading. Thus, Caveat Emptor to all considering a Marriott resale especially if the Marriott property looks a little long in the tooth, that is, not up to Marriott standards, and the management contract is about due for renewal.

carvana wrote:

terry314 wrote:

otard wrote:

this is to Chuck13 Are you sure about losing the 24 day exclusion. this is the first time I have heard of this. I know you cannot get the Rewards, but have not heard of this before. .....

I own both resale and developer Marriott units and state for a fact that you do not loose the 24 day privilege. I also own a non Marriott and can state for a fact that the privilege does exist as I check availability. Also, Las Vegas does NOT offer anything near the trading ability of Ko Olina.

I can book a trip to Las Vegas and stay at the Marriott Grand Chateau to morrow and/or any day because there is so much availability and not enough demand. That alone should give you an example to its trading power. I cannot say the same for Ko Olina, Waiohai or Maui.

It you are buying for points, he is right, Hawaii may not be the best answer. But you would have excellent trading power. I bought Waiohai resale and Legends Edge from Marriott. Legends Edge gives 100K points every year and has low annual fees. Manor club offers 115K points every year and has lower fees, but not where I wanted to go.

Good Luck

I will echo the above comment as to the 24 day Marriott window being available on Marriott resales for I too have both a devloper purchase and a resale and I can attest to the fact that the resale also enjoys the 24 day window.

I can add that once a Marriott resale ceases to be a Marriott and one loses the 24 day window, it becomes much more difficult to successfully trade through II. I also warn that any buyer of a Marriott resale should be very careful to ensure him/herself that Marriott is not about to drop the resort. I have seen that happen in both Vail and Hilton Head and have observed that former Marriott resorts without the 24 day window lose a tremendous amount of value both for resale and for trading. Thus, Caveat Emptor to all considering a Marriott resale especially if the Marriott property looks a little long in the tooth, that is, not up to Marriott standards, and the management contract is about due for renewal.

The latest rumor I heard is that Marriott is considering changing the priority exchange rules to exclude Marriott resale buyers from accessing and using the priority exchange inventory until less than 6 monthhs in advance from an arrival date. This will be more incentive for new owners to purchase from Marriott instead of buying resales.

Again, just a rumor for now......

Eric

Is that a T/S SALESMANS' lips moving?

Does Marriott know you are posting here?

Here we trust very few.

kekouri wrote:

Is that a T/S SALESMANS' lips moving?

Does Marriott know you are posting here?

Here we trust very few.

Kekouri,

I do understand why you feel that that way about T/S salespeople. There is no doubt that some individuals have mislead some buyers, been unethical, and have given the entire category of T/S salespeople a bad name. You are correct to warn people about making sure they understand what they are purchasing, how it actually works, and whom they are doing business with.

As a Marriott sales executive, licensed by the state of Florida, I have a mandate to not misrepresent or otherwise conduct myself in any unethical manner when offering MVCI ownership to a buyer. I decided to seek employment with Marriott because of the excellent reputation Marriott has earned.

Sellers in the resale market do not want competition from Marriott or other developers. Most Redweek forum members' posts about Marriott ownership express satisfaction with their experiences as owners and exchangers of Marriott quality resorts. I am proud to be a Marriott associate and will continue to honestly present ownership opportunities to anyone I meet knowing that I do not have to lie to anyone about the MVCI program. The owner testomonials I hear every day from current owners is all I need to know that this product sells itself and our MVCI owners expectations have been exceeded.

You should also admit that there is a great deal of misinformed information floating around the Redweek Forums about the Marriott Vacation Club program ownership obtained by purchasing directly from Marriott. A few forum members that post frequently seem to have consistently biased opinions, regardless of the questions asked or the needs of the discussion initiator. Reader beware. I too trust very few.

To sum it up, Marriott has a great reputation for integrity and honest business dealings. I honor the tradition and do my best to honestly and completely explain the MVCI deeded ownership options in a manner consistent with the law and what Mr. JW Marriott Jr. would approve of.

Regards, Eric

ericf55 wrote:

kekouri wrote:

Is that a T/S SALESMANS' lips moving?

Does Marriott know you are posting here?

Here we trust very few.

Kekouri,

I do understand why you feel that that way about T/S salespeople. There is no doubt that some individuals have mislead some buyers, been unethical, and have given the entire category of T/S salespeople a bad name. You are correct to warn people about making sure they understand what they are purchasing, how it actually works, and whom they are doing business with.

As a Marriott sales executive, licensed by the state of Florida, I have a mandate to not misrepresent or otherwise conduct myself in any unethical manner when offering MVCI ownership to a buyer. I decided to seek employment with Marriott because of the excellent reputation Marriott has earned.

Sellers in the resale market do not want competition from Marriott or other developers. Most Redweek forum members' posts about Marriott ownership express satisfaction with their experiences as owners and exchangers of Marriott quality resorts. I am proud to be a Marriott associate and will continue to honestly present ownership opportunities to anyone I meet knowing that I do not have to lie to anyone about the MVCI program. The owner testomonials I hear every day from current owners is all I need to know that this product sells itself and our MVCI owners expectations have been exceeded.

You should also admit that there is a great deal of misinformed information floating around the Redweek Forums about the Marriott Vacation Club program ownership obtained by purchasing directly from Marriott. A few forum members that post frequently seem to have consistently biased opinions, regardless of the questions asked or the needs of the discussion initiator. Reader beware. I too trust very few.

To sum it up, Marriott has a great reputation for integrity and honest business dealings. I honor the tradition and do my best to honestly and completely explain the MVCI deeded ownership options in a manner consistent with the law and what Mr. JW Marriott Jr. would approve of.

Regards, Eric

=============== Eric, there are many timeshare companies, such as Marriott, that offer more to the buyer when the unit is bought from the developer than when it is bought resale. When it comes to these extras, people looking to buy resale need to know exactly they are buying. Similarly, when buying from a developer or agent such as you, they need to know exactly what extra privileges are provided to them. I have been at presentations where the contract did not match was being “sold” by the agent.

So, without getting into a sales pitch, please explain to our “listening audience” what benefits one might receive purchasing a TS from you (reward points, exchange availabilities, Vacation Club, etc) as opposed to purchasing resale. For example, except for Marriott reward points does buying a unit on the resale market still get the buyer all the perks of the Vacation Club? A potential buyer can then hopefully make an informed decision as to whether or not he/she wishes to pay a higher price to a Marriott Sales Rep. Mike

mike1536 wrote:

ericf55 wrote:

kekouri wrote:

Is that a T/S SALESMANS' lips moving?

Does Marriott know you are posting here?

Here we trust very few.

Kekouri,

I do understand why you feel that that way about T/S salespeople. There is no doubt that some individuals have mislead some buyers, been unethical, and have given the entire category of T/S salespeople a bad name. You are correct to warn people about making sure they understand what they are purchasing, how it actually works, and whom they are doing business with.

As a Marriott sales executive, licensed by the state of Florida, I have a mandate to not misrepresent or otherwise conduct myself in any unethical manner when offering MVCI ownership to a buyer. I decided to seek employment with Marriott because of the excellent reputation Marriott has earned.

Sellers in the resale market do not want competition from Marriott or other developers. Most Redweek forum members' posts about Marriott ownership express satisfaction with their experiences as owners and exchangers of Marriott quality resorts. I am proud to be a Marriott associate and will continue to honestly present ownership opportunities to anyone I meet knowing that I do not have to lie to anyone about the MVCI program. The owner testomonials I hear every day from current owners is all I need to know that this product sells itself and our MVCI owners expectations have been exceeded.

You should also admit that there is a great deal of misinformed information floating around the Redweek Forums about the Marriott Vacation Club program ownership obtained by purchasing directly from Marriott. A few forum members that post frequently seem to have consistently biased opinions, regardless of the questions asked or the needs of the discussion initiator. Reader beware. I too trust very few.

To sum it up, Marriott has a great reputation for integrity and honest business dealings. I honor the tradition and do my best to honestly and completely explain the MVCI deeded ownership options in a manner consistent with the law and what Mr. JW Marriott Jr. would approve of.

Regards, Eric

=============== Eric, there are many timeshare companies, such as Marriott, that offer more to the buyer when the unit is bought from the developer than when it is bought resale. When it comes to these extras, people looking to buy resale need to know exactly they are buying. Similarly, when buying from a developer or agent such as you, they need to know exactly what extra privileges are provided to them. I have been at presentations where the contract did not match was being “sold” by the agent.

So, without getting into a sales pitch, please explain to our “listening audience” what benefits one might receive purchasing a TS from you (reward points, exchange availabilities, Vacation Club, etc) as opposed to purchasing resale. For example, except for Marriott reward points does buying a unit on the resale market still get the buyer all the perks of the Vacation Club? A potential buyer can then hopefully make an informed decision as to whether or not he/she wishes to pay a higher price to a Marriott Sales Rep. Mike

I think it should be explained to retail Buyers or people buying from the Developer that what they are purchasing they will not be able to offer on the resale market. Somehow it doesn't seem fair that you pay such a premium but when you sell the unit You can't sell what you have paid the premium for.

timesharejudi wrote:

mike1536 wrote:

ericf55 wrote:

kekouri wrote:

Is that a T/S SALESMANS' lips moving?

Does Marriott know you are posting here?

Here we trust very few.

Kekouri,

I do understand why you feel that that way about T/S salespeople. There is no doubt that some individuals have mislead some buyers, been unethical, and have given the entire category of T/S salespeople a bad name. You are correct to warn people about making sure they understand what they are purchasing, how it actually works, and whom they are doing business with.

As a Marriott sales executive, licensed by the state of Florida, I have a mandate to not misrepresent or otherwise conduct myself in any unethical manner when offering MVCI ownership to a buyer. I decided to seek employment with Marriott because of the excellent reputation Marriott has earned.

Sellers in the resale market do not want competition from Marriott or other developers. Most Redweek forum members' posts about Marriott ownership express satisfaction with their experiences as owners and exchangers of Marriott quality resorts. I am proud to be a Marriott associate and will continue to honestly present ownership opportunities to anyone I meet knowing that I do not have to lie to anyone about the MVCI program. The owner testomonials I hear every day from current owners is all I need to know that this product sells itself and our MVCI owners expectations have been exceeded.

You should also admit that there is a great deal of misinformed information floating around the Redweek Forums about the Marriott Vacation Club program ownership obtained by purchasing directly from Marriott. A few forum members that post frequently seem to have consistently biased opinions, regardless of the questions asked or the needs of the discussion initiator. Reader beware. I too trust very few.

To sum it up, Marriott has a great reputation for integrity and honest business dealings. I honor the tradition and do my best to honestly and completely explain the MVCI deeded ownership options in a manner consistent with the law and what Mr. JW Marriott Jr. would approve of.

Regards, Eric

=============== Eric, there are many timeshare companies, such as Marriott, that offer more to the buyer when the unit is bought from the developer than when it is bought resale. When it comes to these extras, people looking to buy resale need to know exactly they are buying. Similarly, when buying from a developer or agent such as you, they need to know exactly what extra privileges are provided to them. I have been at presentations where the contract did not match was being “sold” by the agent.

So, without getting into a sales pitch, please explain to our “listening audience” what benefits one might receive purchasing a TS from you (reward points, exchange availabilities, Vacation Club, etc) as opposed to purchasing resale. For example, except for Marriott reward points does buying a unit on the resale market still get the buyer all the perks of the Vacation Club? A potential buyer can then hopefully make an informed decision as to whether or not he/she wishes to pay a higher price to a Marriott Sales Rep. Mike

I think it should be explained to retail Buyers or people buying from the Developer that what they are purchasing they will not be able to offer on the resale market. Somehow it doesn't seem fair that you pay such a premium but when you sell the unit You can't sell what you have paid the premium for.

Thank you both for asking me to clarify what the benefits are for purchasing from Marriott directly.

Of course the major benefit is the villa conversion to Marriott Rewards points option for alternate years or every year at some properties. Marriott purchasers convert enough points to use for multiple world-wide trips that include airfares and Marriott hotel certificates worth thousands of dollars during their lifetime. This benefit can be passed on from generation to generation as the deed is passed on.

Marriott offers developer purchase incentives that are very valuable.

Marriott offers owner referral bonus Rewards points that are not available for resale owners.

Marriott offers purchase financing with a fixed interest rate and no prepayment penalties.

Marriott recently began offering annual bonus Rewards points for finance payment options.

To service Marriott owners properly, Marriott has a Vacation Owner Advisor assigned to each new owner. This person assists with Rewards points reservation and travel package bookings and offers guidance on maximizing usage and exchange options.

Marriott developer inventory offered for sale is always clear title, without liens for unpaid bills.

Marriott owners' can use Marriott's resale program (when we are sold out of Marriott inventory) so they pass on all of the above Marriott perks to the next owner and receive more money from their resale than by selling it themselves.

Rental: "Ownership may include the opportunity to rent your week to Marriott, based on availability."

When you purchase from Marriott, the contract matches the Marriott promises. That is the Marriott integrety that help change timeshare into a widely accepted ownership option and lifestyle for vacations.

Our owners see the huge benefit of a lifetime of flexible usage options and the quality of Marriott villas and hotels.

Resale buyers pay less and get less than Marriott owners that purchased directly Marriott.

Regards,

Eric

ericf55 wrote:

timesharejudi wrote:

mike1536 wrote:

ericf55 wrote:

kekouri wrote:

Is that a T/S SALESMANS' lips moving?

Does Marriott know you are posting here?

Here we trust very few.

Kekouri,

I do understand why you feel that that way about T/S salespeople. There is no doubt that some individuals have mislead some buyers, been unethical, and have given the entire category of T/S salespeople a bad name. You are correct to warn people about making sure they understand what they are purchasing, how it actually works, and whom they are doing business with.

As a Marriott sales executive, licensed by the state of Florida, I have a mandate to not misrepresent or otherwise conduct myself in any unethical manner when offering MVCI ownership to a buyer. I decided to seek employment with Marriott because of the excellent reputation Marriott has earned.

Sellers in the resale market do not want competition from Marriott or other developers. Most Redweek forum members' posts about Marriott ownership express satisfaction with their experiences as owners and exchangers of Marriott quality resorts. I am proud to be a Marriott associate and will continue to honestly present ownership opportunities to anyone I meet knowing that I do not have to lie to anyone about the MVCI program. The owner testomonials I hear every day from current owners is all I need to know that this product sells itself and our MVCI owners expectations have been exceeded.

You should also admit that there is a great deal of misinformed information floating around the Redweek Forums about the Marriott Vacation Club program ownership obtained by purchasing directly from Marriott. A few forum members that post frequently seem to have consistently biased opinions, regardless of the questions asked or the needs of the discussion initiator. Reader beware. I too trust very few.

To sum it up, Marriott has a great reputation for integrity and honest business dealings. I honor the tradition and do my best to honestly and completely explain the MVCI deeded ownership options in a manner consistent with the law and what Mr. JW Marriott Jr. would approve of.

Regards, Eric

=============== Eric, there are many timeshare companies, such as Marriott, that offer more to the buyer when the unit is bought from the developer than when it is bought resale. When it comes to these extras, people looking to buy resale need to know exactly they are buying. Similarly, when buying from a developer or agent such as you, they need to know exactly what extra privileges are provided to them. I have been at presentations where the contract did not match was being “sold” by the agent.

So, without getting into a sales pitch, please explain to our “listening audience” what benefits one might receive purchasing a TS from you (reward points, exchange availabilities, Vacation Club, etc) as opposed to purchasing resale. For example, except for Marriott reward points does buying a unit on the resale market still get the buyer all the perks of the Vacation Club? A potential buyer can then hopefully make an informed decision as to whether or not he/she wishes to pay a higher price to a Marriott Sales Rep. Mike

I think it should be explained to retail Buyers or people buying from the Developer that what they are purchasing they will not be able to offer on the resale market. Somehow it doesn't seem fair that you pay such a premium but when you sell the unit You can't sell what you have paid the premium for.

Thank you both for asking me to clarify what the benefits are for purchasing from Marriott directly.

Of course the major benefit is the villa conversion to Marriott Rewards points option for alternate years or every year at some properties. Marriott purchasers convert enough points to use for multiple world-wide trips that include airfares and Marriott hotel certificates worth thousands of dollars during their lifetime. This benefit can be passed on from generation to generation as the deed is passed on.

Marriott offers developer purchase incentives that are very valuable.

Marriott offers owner referral bonus Rewards points that are not available for resale owners.

Marriott offers purchase financing with a fixed interest rate and no prepayment penalties.

Marriott recently began offering annual bonus Rewards points for finance payment options.

To service Marriott owners properly, Marriott has a Vacation Owner Advisor assigned to each new owner. This person assists with Rewards points reservation and travel package bookings and offers guidance on maximizing usage and exchange options.

Marriott developer inventory offered for sale is always clear title, without liens for unpaid bills.

Marriott owners' can use Marriott's resale program (when we are sold out of Marriott inventory) so they pass on all of the above Marriott perks to the next owner and receive more money from their resale than by selling it themselves.

Rental: "Ownership may include the opportunity to rent your week to Marriott, based on availability."

When you purchase from Marriott, the contract matches the Marriott promises. That is the Marriott integrety that help change timeshare into a widely accepted ownership option and lifestyle for vacations.

Our owners see the huge benefit of a lifetime of flexible usage options and the quality of Marriott villas and hotels.

Resale buyers pay less and get less than Marriott owners that purchased directly from me and Marriott.

Regards,

Eric

========== Thanks Eric.

Eric: I was not being a wise guy. I am friends with several Marriott Staff, and I know they might get in trouble when they post on a timeshare info & learning website, esp the tug site. ( As you are probably aware).

I think it would be a great help if you could continue posting here without pushing a sales or 'come up & see me sometime" approach. It makes me think there might be bias in you comments if you state that.

I hope you are able to help.....others have from Marriott, Hyatt, Fairfield/Wyndham and some other management companies only to disappear from the site, because they wanted to keep their jobs.

As for buyng a Developer priced unit from Marriott or most other T/S developers or Management companies, most of us here find it is hard to justify the difference in cost. It's hard for us to watch a Marriott Seaview week go for $2075 when the Developers cost to that owner was so much more... ( yes, a Gold week at that resort, Marriott makes sure no one realizes there are many yellow strength weeks in that Gold time period...its not all red)

No, its not just Marriott. I once thought it was great the Marriott protected its owners with the ROFR, but know I feel thats has nothing to do with owner protection......

And.. of course, it is not just Marriott. I remember TUG had a meeting with the sales staff at the FF Wyndham in Alexandria. What a great group when they were willing to give so much info and reasoning...when asked why Fairfield ( wasn't named Wyndham yet) didn't do a ROFR on the owners weeks or points? They were pushing for it, but most of the condo docs didn't have it as part of the contracts.......so we asked is that why resale points are one penny to just under 3 pennies (US) each? They felt that might be one of the reasons. (Recently a Wyndham Newport, RI unit (189,000 points) sold for 1/8 of a cent per point)

But I have to give the Wyndham group credit.....they do not deny the listing of their excess units to the RCI www.afvclub.com or IIs www.govarm.com for active military members weeks at $329 for leave time.

I once mentioned on tug I saw a few Marriott weeks ( Those that trade in RCI & II) on the listings, and thought that was a great thing to do, only to never see a Marriott again.

I also need to ask about one thing. Did I read one benefit from buying a Marriott at a developers cost was a vacation planner? I'm not sure, and of course, they can always change it, but I've read on different T/S forums that resale MAR owners seem to be able to get this bennie also. Maybe there was a mess up?

On the TUG & Forums BBS, they report the only difference is the availability of points....and many don't feel thats a good value ( Marriott was selling them last spring for a penny each?). They go down in value, while the maint fees & taxes go up? (Remember, you can give your week back, for points, but still have to pay that fee plus the weeks maint fees and taxes...around $1000 a week.

I know Marriott sales has some great buys. I saw a Bronze L/O via MAR for $1500...I forgot where (a mud week in Colorado??), but maybe the Mar Travel Reward points could not be traded back for these units. Thanks for posting here. We can use all the help to figure out how to get the best value possible form out units, and the yearly maint fees and taxes.

Kekouri you said: “On the TUG & Forums BBS, they report the only difference is the availability of points....and many don't feel thats a good value ( Marriott was selling them last spring for a penny each?). They go down in value, while the maint fees & taxes go up? (Remember, you can give your week back, for points, but still have to pay that fee plus the weeks maint fees and taxes...around $1000 a week.”

My reply: Based on this quote and your other posts, it is clear that you do not think that the Marriott Rewards Points do not have enough value to offset the higher purchase price offered by Marriott Vacation Club International. Of course our owners, that are using the points option for air/hotel packages from their ownership, would usually disagree with you.

Before I show you the value of using air and hotel packages in addition to using villa weeks, we need a basis of comparison. The purchase of a Marriott Vacation Club International 2BR (with lock-off option) floating Platinum week (red exchange) at a Florida resort that can be exchanged for points every year can be purchased for about $21,000 directly from me and Marriott. The exact same property and week can be purchased from a Redweek advertised resale for about $11,000. I’ve chosen this inventory for the excellent exchange power and the points options and lock-off option flexibility. The annual HOA maintenance and tax expense is identical for both buyers. Closing costs are about the same. I’ll use “today $” values and ask you to remember the inflation factor of airfares and hotel/villa rental rates. And lets presume that the Marriott direct buyer deducts a % of the financing interest expense to offset some of that pre-tax expense.

Both owners could lock-off and use or exchange up to 20 weeks every 10 years of ownership. Or both owners could rent their 2BR unit out for a week 10 times (peak rental value seen on Redweek today) @ $300 p/nt for a total of $2100 times 10 = $21,000. So if both owners just used the villas for occupancy and or rental each owner would get the same money value for their usage instead of renting from others. In this scenario, the resale buyer paid less for the same usage than the Marriott direct buyer.

Now let’s look at our resale buyers other expenses for a trip for two passengers to Hawaii from 12/14/07 to 12/21/07, flying from JFK to Honolulu via AA coach seating and reserving a standard room at the JW Marriott Ihilani at Ko Olina (Oahu) for 7 nights. I checked on it today w/ an Orbitz search: the air is $1700 and the hotel w/tax is $2657 for a total of $4357

Now let’s look at why people choose to purchase directly from Marriott. When I put together their purchase they will have access to 1,200,000 (one million two hundred thousand) or more Marriott Reward points during the first ten years of ownership! Then they could use the points exchange option for 100,000 points every year beyond that.

Now let’s look at that trip to Hawaii for my owners. They could convert 220,000 points for the exact same trip that the resale purchased out of pocket with after tax dollars for $4,357. Remember those 1.2 Million points… well my owners simply pay $104 times 5 years = $520 for 500,000 of those points. The other 700,000 points came from Marriott incentives and financing payment incentives. Now my owners went to Hawaii using their points. How much was each point worth with that usage of 220K points? 220,000 divided by $4,357 = $50.49 each! The cost ($208) is pennies on the dollar!

What should my owner do with the remaining 980,000 points? Would you go 4 more times to Hawaii or the Caribbean in the next 9 years or wait until later (the points don’t expire) and build up more points to travel later when the points are worth even more travel dollars? If our happy owners take 4 more trips using 220K points, they’ll still have 100K points left over!

So the added value of 5 trips worth $4,357 (today $) = $21,785 in the first ten years of ownership. Now add the value of 5 weeks of 2 BR villa usage (recall we only exchanged for points 5 times in ten years) is $2100 times 5 = $10,500. So with conservative valuation, I used today dollars only, that is $10,500 + 21,785 = $32,285 worth of accommodations and airfares.

Kekouri also said:

“I once thought it was great the Marriott protected its owners with the ROFR, but know I feel thats has nothing to do with owner protection......”

My reply: So let’s look at the dark side of timeshare. Resale. I think the MAR ROFR is a benefit for Marriott direct owners. It protects the value of everyone’s equity in their property. If my Marriott owner uses the Marriott resale program and gets back 60% of the sale proceeds 10 years from now and let’s presume that the historic trend continues for Marriott values. Note to all: I am not promising what will be future value! So with a what if scenario, of a sale price in 10 years of maybe $32,000 times 60% equals a return of $19,200 to the Marriott owner. Remember that the originally purchased for $21,000 from Marriott.

So which owner comes out ahead? I think it is clear that the Marriott direct purchaser gets far more value from their ownership than the resale purchaser.

This post took way too much of my time, LOL, but I enjoy the debate and thanks for inviting me to participate. I hope it helps someone in the “listening audience”. BTW, should we start a new thread?

Regards, Eric

This is a learning audience....the more we talk, the more they learn.

I am aware thet Marriott can cancel the Rewards Program and give points holders many months to dispose of their points.

I have currently abour 600,000 points, none recieved from a return of a week to Marriott, but simply by using the purchase option and the Marriott JPMorgan Visa. (Also use the Hilton American Express.)

Maybe I charge too much on those credit cards.....

The most reward points for purchasing a Marriott week I have ever heard of was from one of my friends who was able to get just over 700,000 points as the Williamsburg Manor Club ( non-lockout units) old section was in sell out. I don't know how he did it, but he does kow how to squeeze a MAR Reward point ( and most other reward points programs) to get the best value possible. His main thesis for aiming at the Manor Club was its low maint fees and taxes. I think that is changing now.....they have started to rise somewhat. But where else can a MVCI owner get free golf for the week at the Fords Colony CC.... if they stay at the Manor Club.

Eric....are owners forced to belong to the Florida Club if the T/S they own are part of it?

Just got the new II book today. Will see if answer is in the Marriott section.

Eric:

BTW= I do think the Marriott Management & Development is one of the best. They are so good, they don't need a timeshare point exchange program, you own ( in the USA) a deeded week, not a long term lease (RTU) and they try to make sure the HOAs keep the properties as nice as possible.

Kekouri,

I’m a little surprised that you or anyone didn’t have any comments on my previous post showing the higher value of purchasing directly from Marriott vs. buying private resale.

You did say: “I am aware thet Marriott can cancel the Rewards Program and give points holders many months to dispose of their points.”

Imagine what would happen to corporate profits if any of the major hotel or airline companies would terminate their points rewards or frequent flier programs. It would be corporate suicide! Marriott has about 25 million Marriott Rewards members and generates billions of dollars from customers using Rewards certificates. Hotel guests using the Reward certificates usually splurge on extra meals and services because they are using a “free” room certificate. So, yes, the Marriott Rewards program could be terminated and members would be given 6 months to use their points. However, Marriott would have to then replace the program with a new program of equal or greater value. The truth is that Marriott is constantly improving the Marriott Rewards program with more airline partnerships and other ways to use the Marriott Reward points.

You also asked: “Eric....are owners forced to belong to the Florida Club if the T/S they own are part of it?

The Marriott Florida Club is a deeded option and is part of the maintenance fee. Fl Club members can make a free reservation via Marriott (not an II exchange) at another Fl Club resort (GV, Palm Beach, Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, and Panama City Beach) within their ownership season and less than 6 months in advance, all subject to availability.

And thank you for the compliment about Marriott Vacation Club International:

“BTW= I do think the Marriott Management & Development is one of the best. They are so good, they don't need a timeshare point exchange program, you own ( in the USA) a deeded week, not a long term lease (RTU) and they try to make sure the HOAs keep the properties as nice as possible.”

I look forward to your response and would welcome some comments from the “listening audience”.

Regards, Eric

ericf55 wrote:

Kekouri,

I’m a little surprised that you or anyone didn’t have any comments on my previous post showing the higher value of purchasing directly from Marriott vs. buying private resale.

You did say: “I am aware thet Marriott can cancel the Rewards Program and give points holders many months to dispose of their points.”

Imagine what would happen to corporate profits if any of the major hotel or airline companies would terminate their points rewards or frequent flier programs. It would be corporate suicide! Marriott has about 25 million Marriott Rewards members and generates billions of dollars from customers using Rewards certificates. Hotel guests using the Reward certificates usually splurge on extra meals and services because they are using a “free” room certificate. So, yes, the Marriott Rewards program could be terminated and members would be given 6 months to use their points. However, Marriott would have to then replace the program with a new program of equal or greater value. The truth is that Marriott is constantly improving the Marriott Rewards program with more airline partnerships and other ways to use the Marriott Reward points.

You also asked: “Eric....are owners forced to belong to the Florida Club if the T/S they own are part of it?

The Marriott Florida Club is a deeded option and is part of the maintenance fee. Fl Club members can make a free reservation via Marriott (not an II exchange) at another Fl Club resort (GV, Palm Beach, Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, and Panama City Beach) within their ownership season and less than 6 months in advance, all subject to availability.

And thank you for the compliment about Marriott Vacation Club International:

“BTW= I do think the Marriott Management & Development is one of the best. They are so good, they don't need a timeshare point exchange program, you own ( in the USA) a deeded week, not a long term lease (RTU) and they try to make sure the HOAs keep the properties as nice as possible.”

I look forward to your response and would welcome some comments from the “listening audience”.

Regards, Eric

========== Eric, regarding a major corporation cancelling a frequent user program. I agree that they may not cancel the program, but instead they often "change the rules" making it harder and harder to use the points or miles. Some institue an expiration date where previously there was none. Airlines are offering either less seats or require more miles for travel. Many hotel points expire within a year.

I know I didn't have any comments on the higher price to buy Marriott from the developer vs resale. That was part of my original question...let us know the difference. Someone can now make a better decision. Maybe our roads will cross in the future.

Mike

Points: For starters - Marriott IS NOT going to cancel it Marriott rewards program!

Though many people think that the value of the MR points go down as MF's go up, there is another way of looking at it. Marriott does change the categories of hotels from time to time, but in general hotel rates have risen at a much faster pace than these changes and MF’s have. It is not uncommon for nicer hotels to charge $400-600 /night. So, even if that hotel was a Cat 6 and is now a Cat 7, it can be had for 150,000 week. All things equal, that's about $1500 dollars - tax inclusive. It's a steal!

There are a couple of hotels in Fort Worth that we always book with points. We usually stay for two nights when visiting and save about $125 on each stay by using points. ($149/nt + tax vs. 19,000 MRP)

Marriott can make it lucrative to purchase a TS direct by offering a couple hundred thousand points, but truth is, the cost factor usually doesn't make sense unless you are very very good at booking the "second honeymoons" and flying business class on second tier dates and days. It IS very doable, however. I hope to do it in 2009. The MR points system is a great sales pitch, but MOST people never maximize the value of the points.

Buying form Marriott: Buying an expensive Hawaii TS from Marriott so that you can be part of Marriott's system?? - I just can't think of a reason that should ever happen.

Let's say you bought a $24,000 EOY Waiohai unit for $12,000 resale. You could just about buy an EOY Legends Edge from Marriott with the money you saved. You then would get 100,000 points EOY. Waiohai would give you a great resort for use, super tradability with II along with bonus weeks with you deposit, while Legends Edge wood give you great flexibility with the MR points. This is exactly what I did.

Florida Club: Though most people do not use the Florida Club option, I hope to do so in the future. I just checked last week with my Marriott Advisor and was told that BeachPlace Towers has plenty of availability for June and July of next year. If there is still availability in January, I plan to book a week there.

Marriott Salesmen: Remember to ask all the questions you can about local activities, restaurants, shopping, etc. BEFORE you tell him/her that you are not interested. :)

IMO

Terry: I found this on the Marriott Rewards website. I believe a few companies had completely changed their rewards systems. I believe Marriott would feel justified to do this as well:

"...

General Membership

1. Marriott Rewards membership and its benefits are offered at the discretion of Marriott. Marriott and its travel partners have the right to change, limit, modify or cancel Program Rules, regulations, rewards, and reward levels at any time, with or without notice, even though such changes may affect the value of points or miles already accumulated, the ability to use accumulated points or miles, or the ability to obtain certain rewards. Marriott and its travel partners may, among other things: (a) increase or decrease the number of points or miles received for a stay or required for a reward; (b) withdraw, limit, modify, or cancel any reward; (c) add blackout dates, limit rooms available for any reward at any participating hotel, or otherwise restrict the continued availability of rewards; (d) change program benefits, travel partners, locations served by Marriott or its travel partners, conditions of participation, rules for earning, redeeming, retaining, or forfeiting points or miles, or rules governing the use of rewards; (e) change or cancel its travel partner rewards. The accumulation of points or miles does not entitle members to any vested rights with respect to points, miles, rewards, or program benefits. In accumulating points or miles, members may not rely upon the continued availability of any reward or reward level. ..."

I also am charged BEYOND maint fees and taxes to be a member of the Florida Club...I think only $35.00 US ( for domestic US owners only...much higher for out of US owners). It is not part of the maint fees. And I think I get a much better value via II.....and will probably contine until Marriott tries to do an internal trade program.

As for the points value going down, they have, substantially. 200,000 points a few years ago bought 2 R/T airline tixs to any place ( and Marriott did the seat work for the plane tixs with Reward Points), a Hertz rent a car for a week, an AT&T phone card for the week, and a weeks stay in an ANY category Marriott Hotel. ( But not Ritz Carlton....but more points did get a room there as well...... )

I have also noted that category numbers for some hotels under Marriott Management seems to go up, so the place costs more points.