WALK AWAY FROM TIMESHARE

can someone please tell me their experience renting or selling their timeshare here on Redweek.

Is there any reason an owner can't deed away a free and clear timeshare to a 3rd party (person or company), notify the resort of the transfer (and pay the transfer fee) and simply be done with the timeshare?

The owner never signed a contract with anyone, just bought the timeshare years ago on eBay for cash. So, once it's out of the owner's name, the resort has no ability to come after the (now prior) owner for anything, right?

If this is correct, and my understanding of the law (in California at least) is that it is, does anyone know of a company that the owner can deed the timeshare to?

iank29 wrote:

Is there any reason an owner can't deed away a free and clear timeshare to a 3rd party (person or company), notify the resort of the transfer (and pay the transfer fee) and simply be done with the timeshare?

The owner never signed a contract with anyone, just bought the timeshare years ago on eBay for cash. So, once it's out of the owner's name, the resort has no ability to come after the (now prior) owner for anything, right?

If this is correct, and my understanding of the law (in California at least) is that it is, does anyone know of a company that the owner can deed the timeshare to?

The individual state involved doesn't matter one bit. You can NEVER just unilaterally deed a timeshare over to an unknowing, unwilling person or entity (...and if you try to do so, you clearly commit fraud). There must always be overt, willful ACCEPTANCE of the transfer.

Timeshare ownership, by definition, carries its' own inherent legal obligations, with or without there ever having been a "signed contract" per se (for specific example, there are rarely any "signed contracts" executed in privately conducted resales). Once you own a timeshare by valid, recorded deed you simultaneously inherit ALL of the legal obligations associated therewith, like it or not.

You may have to GIVE the timeshare away. You may even have to offer to pay all of the closing costs yourself in order to do so, but "walking away" (or commiting fraud by false deed) are really not wise or realistic options. Foreclosure and a significant "credit report ding" are the inevitable consequences of doing nothing at all. Criminal prosecution is a real possibility for initiating and recording a fraudulent deed. Be smart and don't get yourself "jammed up"...

Thank you for your response. I should have been more clear that I was talking about deeding it to a willing third party. I'm not talking about fraud in any way.

I'm talking about what options there are for people who have not been able to give their timeshare away. If it were a willing 3rd party entity (such as an LLC), this would work, right? The 3rd party entity could exist for the purpose of rescuing people from unwanted timeshares. It could sell those that were saleable, give the unsaleable ones back to the resort, and allow foreclosure of those that the resorts won't accept.

The current owner, just because they accepted a free timeshare or paid for it, didn't agree to an obligation for life that they can't get out of, and that can keep going up and up in cost, particularly in an economy like this. In fact, if they bought it second-hand, they didn't agree to anything whatsoever. If they choose to let it go, or donate it to a 3rd party, that's their option.

Yes, it will cost the remaining owners more. The remaining owners have an option to do the same, or to stay as owners, and if they stay as owners, to encourage the resort to do everything possible to keep dues absolutely rock-bottom so the timeshares become more valuable. But, none of this is any obligation on any owner-they can always get rid of theirs if they want to.

Once deeded out of your name, with the deed and transfer fee provided to the resort, there is no way they can foreclose on you nor ding your credit, right?

I'm reading a lot of misinformation, I think, in all these forums regarding this issue. People are being wrongly scared into keeping their timeshares.

iank29 wrote:

Thank you for your response. I should have been more clear that I was talking about deeding it to a willing third party. I'm not talking about fraud in any way.

I'm talking about what options there are for people who have not been able to give their timeshare away. If it were a willing 3rd party entity (such as an LLC), this would work, right? The 3rd party entity could exist for the purpose of rescuing people from unwanted timeshares. It could sell those that were saleable, give the unsaleable ones back to the resort, and allow foreclosure of those that the resorts won't accept.

The current owner, just because they accepted a free timeshare or paid for it, didn't agree to an obligation for life that they can't get out of, and that can keep going up and up in cost, particularly in an economy like this. In fact, if they bought it second-hand, they didn't agree to anything whatsoever. If they choose to let it go, or donate it to a 3rd party, that's their option.

Yes, it will cost the remaining owners more. The remaining owners have an option to do the same, or to stay as owners, and if they stay as owners, to encourage the resort to do everything possible to keep dues absolutely rock-bottom so the timeshares become more valuable. But, none of this is any obligation on any owner-they can always get rid of theirs if they want to.

Once deeded out of your name, with the deed and transfer fee provided to the resort, there is no way they can foreclose on you nor ding your credit, right?

I'm reading a lot of misinformation, I think, in all these forums regarding this issue. People are being wrongly scared into keeping their timeshares.

I respectfully but completely disagree with your expressed logic and with your incorrect "legal reasoning" for a whole variety of reasons, a very few of which I will itemize below:

1. Pointing out the cold, hard reality of applicable law is certainly not any kind of effort to "scare" anyone. On the contrary, providing irrefutable facts to consider alongside the many uninformed and ill advised theories, schemes and opinions so prevalent in the unfiltered "Internet world" merely provides additional "food for thought". In the final analysis, the law simply "is what it is" and will ultimately prevail, whether or not you (or I, or anyone else) approve.

2. Many HOA's have competent, attentive and aggressive attorneys on their Board of Directors (...I know for a fact that MINE certainly do ;-). These folks would never passively accept or acknowledge the legal validity of any deed signed over to a shell LLC without a (guaranteed successful) legal challenge. You might well find that pursuing a flawed plan to sign over a deed to some bogus, shell LLC would promptly come right back to bite you in the backside.

The fundamental purpose of a LLC is (essentially) to provide people with limited protection from personal liability in the course of a business practice. It is certainly NOT the purpose or function of a LLC to help "hide" any individual from their previous contractual obligations into which they voluntarily entered of their own free will. Sorry, but pursuing this particular route is really just a different road which still travels directly into a town named FRAUD...

3. Finally, I hope that your introduction here of this flawed "LLC hiding place" plan is not just a subtle way of "introducing" or leading into the later identification of some shell LLC which (...for a fee, of course) will later "offer their services" for a (doomed) attempt to "walk away" from the clear, legal and contractual obligations of timeshare ownership. As my subject line indicates, fraud by another name is still FRAUD. Better to give the timeshare away and pay the closing costs to do so too, if necessary, rather than engage in unethical (and more significantly, unlawful) activity.

This is just a discussion forum and certainly not formal dispensing of legal advice. You are certainly entitled to express a viewpoint, but I personally find your proposal to be immoral, illegal and potentially dangerous to pursue. Nonetheless, it is certainly your (and everyone else's) choice and prerogative to choose and to act as they may see fit... just don't conveniently fail to acknowledge or accept that there ARE consequences to ANY chosen course of action.

iank29 wrote:

The current owner, just because they accepted a free timeshare or paid for it, didn't agree to an obligation for life that they can't get out of, and that can keep going up and up in cost, particularly in an economy like this. In fact, if they bought it second-hand, they didn't agree to anything whatsoever. If they choose to let it go, or donate it to a 3rd party, that's their option.

If you had thoroughly researched timeshare ownership before you bought you would realize that maintenance fees are part and parcel of owning a timeshare.

Yes, you can let it go (and blemish your credit) or donate it to a 3rd party (if that party wishes to own it and it is transferred correctly), but other than that you don't have much choice. You can pay a PCC $3000+ to take it off your hands and take the chance with some PCCs the ownership is never transferred.

You are in the same predicament that millions of other timeshare owners are facing and there's not an easy answer or a one size fits all in getting rid of an unwanted timeshare.

iank29 wrote:

I'm reading a lot of misinformation, I think, in all these forums regarding this issue. People are being wrongly scared into keeping their timeshares.

Well then, stop paying your maintenance fees then come back here and tell us that "people are being wrongly scared into keeping their timeshares" after they foreclose on you and your credit is blemished .... there are people that post on this forum that have many years of timeshare ownership experience. The fact that you didn't research timeshare ownership and what that entails before you bought resale, tells me how much misinformation you think you know.

andrea364 wrote:

I have questions about timeshares. I am seriously thinking about buying a timeshare on the beach in my favorite place New Smyrna Beach, Florida. There is a listing on eBay I am thinking about bidding on and the auction ends in less then 24 hours. The cost would be whatever the auction ends at, plus closing cost of about $400.00. It is week 2 for inventory purcpose and floating week 1-52, 2 bedroom, annual mainentance fees are about $425 right now. I have never bought a timeshare before, so I am hesitant to do it. Are these things worth it? There is no way I could stay on the beach for anywhere $425 per year. I could also buy through Redweek for up to $1500 for a 1 bedroom. This is at Islander Beach Resort a very nice place as I have seen it from the outside, while driving by. Can some one please help me to decide. Are these easy to sell if I loose my job, etc and need to get out or am I going to be stuck for the reat of my life? Also, what about RCI, etc. I know nothing about these things, please help!

Thank you,

Andrea

Andrea, I don't know if this has been answered previously, but I will try to answer your questions.

Before I bought any timeshare I would peruse timeshare auctions on Ebay ..... do a search for where you would like to own. Ebay has the very lowest cost resale timeshares due to PCCs (postcard companies) that retained ownership by transferring it to themselves (or using a power of attorney) after receiving it from an owner that just wanted to be rid of it and paying the PCC $3000+ for that privilege. The PCCs then turn around and put them on Ebay for $1.

You could possibly get what you want for nothing to $1 on Ebay, but you asked if timeshares are hard to sell if you lose your job. It depends on supply and demand of the resort and your time owned. Many timeshare weeks can't even be given away, so keep that in mind. Also, exchanging is a crap shoot and is expensive.

The mantra from most seasoned timeshare owners is to buy where you like to go every year, don't buy to exchange because you may be sorely disappointed in your choices.

In closing, especially in this economy, it's much easier to buy a timeshare than to sell a timeshare.

xxx

jayjay wrote:

iank29 wrote:

I'm reading a lot of misinformation, I think, in all these forums regarding this issue. People are being wrongly scared into keeping their timeshares.

Well then, stop paying your maintenance fees then come back here and tell us that "people are being wrongly scared into keeping their timeshares" after they foreclose on you and your credit is blemished .... there are people that post on this forum that have many years of timeshare ownership experience. The fact that you didn't research timeshare ownership and what that entails before you bought resale, tells me how much misinformation you think you know.

Don't bully me. You're being rude. I'm on this forum trying to get info and answers and figure this out. It's unfair for you to start insulting me about what I "think I know".

You're also mis-stating the solution I'm asking about. The solution is to deed to a willing third party company (I'm assuming we'll have to pay a fee to do so), then providing the deed and the transfer fee to the resort. We will then have no further obligation to pay dues. The resort can foreclose if they want, and it will affect the credit of the third party company, who exists for the purpose of helping people divest from unwanted timeshares and won't care about the credit consequences of foreclosure for unpaid MF.

As far as I can figure out, no contract is signed by an owner of a timeshare who purchased it for cash (or received it for free) secondhand. The deed conveys obligations. But, it does NOT convey an obligation to own it forever and pay. If it was deeded in 2005 and dues were $390/year, and now in 2010 they're $610/year and the owner no longer chooses (or is able to) to own it and pay for said maintenance, the owner has made no commitment to do so. Any legal way of divesting it is acceptable. If it has no value and can't be given away, and the resort won't accept it, then using a company who will accept title for a price may be the best option.

The unwilling timeshare owner should not be bullied into a responsibility that does not exist. That's what I'm trying to figure out here. Does a responsibility exist? It appears there is NO legal obligation to keep a free and clear timeshare I don't want. If the resort won't take it back, some of you appear to be arguing that the "Social Contract" requires I continue to pay. I disagree.

You asked the same question on TUG and got the same answer I gave you here .... you merely want out of the obligations of owning your timeshare .... who is the 3rd party you keep referring to that would possibly take on your timeshare responsibility ..... why would they want it if YOU can't even GIVE it away.

Like I said previously, you obviously knew nothing about timeshare ownership when you bought via Ebay .... once that ownership is transferred into your name, you have the same obligations as any other timeshare owner at that resort no matter how those timeshares were purchased, whether developer or resale.

You want someone to validate your position in getting rid of your timeshare .... anybody that's timeshare educated (as TUG members are) simply don't condone your position and that makes you angry.

Maybe it would help the resale buyer( asking about giving a timeshare to an LLC) if he thought of it as having bought a house. The contract may not mention that he will need to pay taxes on the house or pay for street repairs etc. but these expenses are standard parts of home ownership. Paying the annual maintenance fee is a standard part of timeshare ownership. If he sells or gives it to a willing LLC and it takes full contractual ownership (just as he originally did), I would assume that subsequent MF obligations would then devolve upon that new owner. But be very sure that the legal transfer was made and acknowledged by the timeshare company! If you created an LLC yourself for the purpose of taking over unwanted timeshares and with the intent of not paying the related obligations, then we surely are talking fraud. (Does this sound right, Ken? Or am I missing something?) MD

adahiscout wrote:

Maybe it would help the resale buyer( asking about giving a timeshare to an LLC) if he thought of it as having bought a house. The contract may not mention that he will need to pay taxes on the house or pay for street repairs etc. but these expenses are standard parts of home ownership. Paying the annual maintenance fee is a standard part of timeshare ownership. If he sells or gives it to a willing LLC and it takes full contractual ownership (just as he originally did), I would assume that subsequent MF obligations would then devolve upon that new owner. But be very sure that the legal transfer was made and acknowledged by the timeshare company! If you created an LLC yourself for the purpose of taking over unwanted timeshares and with the intent of not paying the related obligations, then we surely are talking fraud. (Does this sound right, Ken? Or am I missing something?) MD

You've mostly hit the nail correctly and squarely on the head.

One critically important and relevant distinction / difference here in regard to the "house" analogy is that a timeshare has, by definition, some very specific underlying (and governing) condominium documents. It is, in fact, these very underlying governing documents, whose existence is specifically referenced within a deed, which identify, carry (and transfer to each subsequent interval owner) specific use rights and specific obligations (i.e., maintenance fees) to and upon each and every interval owner. It is completely irrelevant whether it's a developer or resale purchase, it's completely irrelevant whether or not there is a signed contract executed in the course of a resale, and it's completely irrelevant what the "consideration" in any purchase might be (whether it's free, ten cents, or ten thousand dollars matters not one bit). A properly prepared, recorded and accepted deed transfers ALL of the underlying governing documents' rights and responsibilities to the new owner upon deed acceptance.

That said, you are absolutely correct that creation or use of a LLC solely to attempt to hide from or to attempt to escape from an existing legal obligation is nothing but outright FRAUD, plain and simple. Fraud is a CRIMINAL offense, so anyone considering travelling toward that particular town should think long and hard before trying to take that very dangerous "exit"...

curious about your resort....never stayed there...stayed @ harborside & loved it. How much are fees & what week do you own?

So, you’re saying a timeshare is more like a dog than a car: • While you own a car, you pay to maintain it, license it, etc. But, if you want to be rid of it, you sell it, or if it has no value, you give it away or let it be towed away. • With a dog, you feed it, care for it, and if you no longer want to own it, you must find someone who will agree to feed it and care for it, can’t simply let it go. I’m still trying to figure out the right way to think about this. It seems to me that, legally, a timeshare is more like a car. As long as you want to own it, you pay to maintain it and taxes. But, you are NOT required to continue owning it for the rest of your life and paying on it, just because you once accepted the deed. The question is what is the best, ethical way to get rid of it? The answers I’m getting are understandably biased by the fact that they’re written by timeshare owners who do NOT want other owners walking from their timeshares. But, despite the fervency of the rhetoric, I’m not sure they’re correct.

In specific response to jayjay, who continues to try and bully me into his position: You again are resorting to insults. It is inappropriate. When one’s arguments are good, they speak for themselves. When they are not, you resort to personal insults. You have no idea what I know or knew about timeshares. I am increasingly disagreeing with your position. I’m not angry, just pointing out that you are being insulting rather than holding a proper dialogue, and you did it again in your latest post. I think it is quite possible that I am as “timeshare educated” as you, or more; yet, I disagree with your position. I am searching for answers to what is not a clear situation. There are many people (who, based on their posts, I suspect may be “timeshare educated”) who disagree with you. I request that you read your posts before posting them, and leave out the vitriol, and let your arguments speak for themselves without attacking the other parties.

ian139 wrote:

So, you’re saying a timeshare is more like a dog than a car: • While you own a car, you pay to maintain it, license it, etc. But, if you want to be rid of it, you sell it, or if it has no value, you give it away or let it be towed away. • With a dog, you feed it, care for it, and if you no longer want to own it, you must find someone who will agree to feed it and care for it, can’t simply let it go. I’m still trying to figure out the right way to think about this.

It's the underlying, governing condominium documents, clearly referenced within your (and every other) timeshare deed, which rule all. It seems as though you choose to simply ignore the existence and / or irrefutable legal or contractual meaning or application of these governing documents, but your personal "denial" does not in any way alter (or diminish) the indisputable contractual and legal obligations or facts associated therewith. Period, amen.

There is nothing further I could (...or will) contribute to this discussion. The legal facts are the legal facts, whether or not you happen to personally acknowledge, like or accept them.

I bear you no ill will; this discussion has hopefully provided some legal information and insight to (...other) readers here. I wish you luck in whatever (lawful) course of action you choose to pursue.

ian139 wrote:

While you own a car, you pay to maintain it, license it, etc. But, if you want to be rid of it, you sell it, or if it has no value, you give it away or let it be towed away.

Same with a timeshare as a car .... you pay maintenance fees and other financial obligations until you want to get rid of it .... then you try to sell it .... if the car or the timeshare has no value then you give it away, but there has to be a transfer of ownership or you will still be billed for the maintenance fees or license plate .... even if the car is towed away, you are still responsible for any fees (license plate, tow charge) related to the vehicle.

I don't know what you want us to say .... there is no easy way to get out of the financial obligations of timeshare ownership unless the timeshare is transferred out of your name to another party, period.

ian139 wrote:

So, you’re saying a timeshare is more like a dog than a car: • While you own a car, you pay to maintain it, license it, etc. But, if you want to be rid of it, you sell it, or if it has no value, you give it away or let it be towed away. • With a dog, you feed it, care for it, and if you no longer want to own it, you must find someone who will agree to feed it and care for it, can’t simply let it go. I’m still trying to figure out the right way to think about this. It seems to me that, legally, a timeshare is more like a car. As long as you want to own it, you pay to maintain it and taxes. But, you are NOT required to continue owning it for the rest of your life and paying on it, just because you once accepted the deed. The question is what is the best, ethical way to get rid of it? The answers I’m getting are understandably biased by the fact that they’re written by timeshare owners who do NOT want other owners walking from their timeshares. But, despite the fervency of the rhetoric, I’m not sure they’re correct.

In specific response to jayjay, who continues to try and bully me into his position: You again are resorting to insults. It is inappropriate. When one’s arguments are good, they speak for themselves. When they are not, you resort to personal insults. You have no idea what I know or knew about timeshares. I am increasingly disagreeing with your position. I’m not angry, just pointing out that you are being insulting rather than holding a proper dialogue, and you did it again in your latest post. I think it is quite possible that I am as “timeshare educated” as you, or more; yet, I disagree with your position. I am searching for answers to what is not a clear situation. There are many people (who, based on their posts, I suspect may be “timeshare educated”) who disagree with you. I request that you read your posts before posting them, and leave out the vitriol, and let your arguments speak for themselves without attacking the other parties.

Ownership of a vehicle is the same as ownership of a timeshare .... all financial responsibilities are the obligation of the owner until the vehicle or the timeshare is transferred out of their name.

What part of that do you not understand ????? There are no insults are bullying in my statement above ..... only FACTS, which, for some reason you can't seem to comprehend.

ian139 wrote:

In specific response to jayjay, who continues to try and bully me into his position: You again are resorting to insults. It is inappropriate. When one’s arguments are good, they speak for themselves. When they are not, you resort to personal insults. You have no idea what I know or knew about timeshares. I am increasingly disagreeing with your position. I’m not angry, just pointing out that you are being insulting rather than holding a proper dialogue, and you did it again in your latest post. I think it is quite possible that I am as “timeshare educated” as you, or more; yet, I disagree with your position. I am searching for answers to what is not a clear situation. There are many people (who, based on their posts, I suspect may be “timeshare educated”) who disagree with you. I request that you read your posts before posting them, and leave out the vitriol, and let your arguments speak for themselves without attacking the other parties.

I'm not trying to bully you ..... you just don't like what I had to say as far as you getting out from under your responsibilities as a timeshare owner .... what I said was a 'fact'.

Our deed (including legal descriptions) do NOT state the obligations you state. There are NO contractual obligations transferred by these deeds. Based on the clear statement on the face of the deeds, the recipient receives RIGHTS (to use and occupy). That's it. It appears the recipient has complete freedom to relinquish or abandon said rights at any time, at which point there is no further obligation to pay maintenance fees. If this is wrong, I expect that when we tender them clearly in writing to the resort, they'll delineate said obligations. Your 11/22 post does not do so. I doubt the resort can either, based on the clear language on the face of our deeds.