Buying Marriott Vacation Club Resale

mike1536 wrote:

If Marriott exercises its ROFR, can the owner refusing Marriott's "offer" and going back to the original buyer and ask for more $$. Maybe an extra thousand or so from the buyer will be enough to stop Marriott from the ROFR.

IMO, Marriott's (and others) practice of ROFR borders on unethical. They "hang around" like vultures waiting for the undervalued sale. Then they will buy a unit for below market value, then double (maybe triple) the price, and resell. If ROFR is exercised, Marriott should at least offer a price closer to THEIR market value.

A better system would be for the owner to be able to offer it to Marriott first, BEFORE listing it on the open market.

========== I strongly agree with Mike. While timeshare companies have a right to focus on earning a healthy profit I view the ROFR as used quite often in an unethical manner. The Compnies have the ability to sell at top dollar, while owners are hampered. By forcing the owners to use less efficient methods (fraught with many unethical re-sale companies) the owners sell at far lower prices. There is no reason the Companies should be taking advantage of their owners like this.

It OK to make a healthy profit. But not at the extreme loss of their owners. IMHO this is equivalent to exotic fasion companies using 3rd world labor to reap huge profits. It's not the profit I have a problem with, its the cost to the owner (or the wage earner's subsistance living) while realizing the profit that bothers me.

Thank you carvana for addressing my question! I would have liked to read other owners concur rather than have the thread drift, but I'm happy to hear this is a benefit to the Marriott re-sale owner. I spoke with II and they were pretty vague and directed me to Marriott. I asked because last year during a Marriott presentation the sales person said resale didn't have the 24 day window (among other things) and I was uncertain how much was true and which was false.

mnop wrote:

mike1536 wrote:

If Marriott exercises its ROFR, can the owner refusing Marriott's "offer" and going back to the original buyer and ask for more $$. Maybe an extra thousand or so from the buyer will be enough to stop Marriott from the ROFR.

IMO, Marriott's (and others) practice of ROFR borders on unethical. They "hang around" like vultures waiting for the undervalued sale. Then they will buy a unit for below market value, then double (maybe triple) the price, and resell. If ROFR is exercised, Marriott should at least offer a price closer to THEIR market value.

A better system would be for the owner to be able to offer it to Marriott first, BEFORE listing it on the open market.

========== I strongly agree with Mike. While timeshare companies have a right to focus on earning a healthy profit I view the ROFR as used quite often in an unethical manner. The Compnies have the ability to sell at top dollar, while owners are hampered. By forcing the owners to use less efficient methods (fraught with many unethical re-sale companies) the owners sell at far lower prices. There is no reason the Companies should be taking advantage of their owners like this.

It OK to make a healthy profit. But not at the extreme loss of their owners. IMHO this is equivalent to exotic fasion companies using 3rd world labor to reap huge profits. It's not the profit I have a problem with, its the cost to the owner (or the wage earner's subsistance living) while realizing the profit that bothers me.

Thank you carvana for addressing my question! I would have liked to read other owners concur rather than have the thread drift, but I'm happy to hear this is a benefit to the Marriott re-sale owner. I spoke with II and they were pretty vague and directed me to Marriott. I asked because last year during a Marriott presentation the sales person said resale didn't have the 24 day window (among other things) and I was uncertain how much was true and which was false.

The FROF is in the contract when you purchase from Marriott. You can't go back and change prices once you submit the contract to Marriott. When the buyer signs off on it, it is up to Marriott to approve or disapprove. As real estate values continue to go up, it only makes sense that Marriott takes back the ocean and top ski weeks as that is what is selling. Someone said that their is an Evergreen week that is listed for 21k. If the seller purchased thru Marriott in the beginning,I don't see why this person doesn't list it with Marriott today and probably have it sold as they have a waiting list of people wanting to purchase these. With that said, they would net approximately 20,840 after the 40% commission is paid out versus 21k...if they were to truly get the 21k on resale thru redweeks? The seller makes out and gets his money. I would have to think he purchased on the outside Market and Marriott is not listing it for this reason because they could certainly use the week as they have a waiting list of people looking to buy Platinum Evergreen two bedrooms.

The system is designed so Marriott makes the money. Marriott will NOT exercise it's ROFR unless they know they can "flip" it to someone on the waiting list. Then they double or triple the price; make a hefty profit without a lot of expenses. I doubt Marriott would do a ROFR if they thought the unit would hang around for more than a few months.

Another question. Can Marriott exercise ROFR if an owner wanted to give the TS to a family member (sibling, cousin, uncle,etc) and basically get the TS back for $0? What about if it was sold to a family member for a "token amount"?

mike1536 wrote:

The system is designed so Marriott makes the money. Marriott will NOT exercise it's ROFR unless they know they can "flip" it to someone on the waiting list. Then they double or triple the price; make a hefty profit without a lot of expenses. I doubt Marriott would do a ROFR if they thought the unit would hang around for more than a few months.

Another question. Can Marriott exercise ROFR if an owner wanted to give the TS to a family member (sibling, cousin, uncle,etc) and basically get the TS back for $0? What about if it was sold to a family member for a "token amount"?

You would need to call Marriott's owner services and handle this. No money can be exchanged or it looks like a sale. If it is a sale, then Marriott has the right to exercise FROF.

That's all fine to say Sell if on RW or elsewhere for 40% of what Marriott will sell for. My point remains that owners have to exert the effort to find a buyer, and only then the companies exercise ROFR. I know it's crying spilt milk after the fact (buy the timeshare, then complain) but houses don't lose 40-80% of their value after they are purchased, and there is a reputable network (OK maybe semi-reputable) of sales programs available to sell homes without the owner being taken advantage of to an extreme extent.

In the timeshare industry, the owner is the point person who is taken advantage of. Just because owners and prospective owners don't have the ability to change the contracts, and they sign anyway, doesn't mean what is being done is fair. It just means the owners settle for the unfairness. An odd example is the American auto industry in the 60's and 70's. American Auto compnies produced increasingly inferior products and consumers continued to buy because they had few alternative options. Eventually the Asian producers showed superior cars could be made and the American Auto industry (after being badly battered to wake up) finally began to improve their product.

How do we create an environment to run the resale scam companies out of business and secure terms with developers to ensure a more fair timeshare ownership experience?

carvana wrote:

mnop wrote:

I think my basic question was about how a resale Marriott owner exchanges thur II. The direct purchase owner is allowed to view Marriott exchange deposits for 24 days from the deposit date before non-Marriott owners are able to see the deposit. Is a resale Marriott owner treated like "other II members" who do not see Marriott deposits for their first 24 days, or do Marriott resale owners immediately see Marriott deposits like Marriott direct purchase owners?

I have owned both Marriott timeshares purchased from Marriott at developer price and Marriott resales purchased from individuals. The resales received the same 24 day priority with II as do those purchased from Marriott. There have been rumors on Redweek posts that Marriott would discontinue this 24 day priority for resales but it has not happened. The only disadvantage to buying resale is that you do not have the option to trade your week for Marriott points. Anything can change and you should independently verify the question with Marriott prior to pulling the trigger on a resale purchase. The 24 day priority is a big deal and it helped us consistently trade Marriott Streamside Vail summer weeks for the higher demand Marriott ski weeks.

I was told by a Marriott TS salesperson that if you purchase outside of Marriott that you do not get the 24 day room/bldg. request. Does anyone know if this is true or where I can find that out. I don't trust the Marriott salesperson or the TS reseller for getting an honest answer.

Getting the room preference option is very important when you purchase an oceanview room.

Dele5,

I think you are confused about the purpose of the 24 day exchange priority Mariott owners enjoy for trading their resort week for a week at another resort. If you purchased an ocean view room at a Marrott timeshare resale you are always entitled to an ocean view room when you return to your home resort. That is what you purchased and that is what you get even if the purchase was resale.

The 24 day priority applies to the times you exchange your week for another Marriott resort through II. The priority places you ahead of other II exchangers (non-Marriott owners) for 24 days. This is a big benefit for Marriott owners and has worked well for us over the years. I have heard for years at Marriott sales presentations that this benefit would soon be withdrawn from buyers of Marriott resales but "soon" is still somewhere out in the future. Our latest trade of a Marriott resale was done within the 24 day window for a 2009 week.

What I'm wondering is if Marriott does decide to take away the right to put in a room/bldg. request 24 days prior (for re-sale purchases), would current owners that bought re-sale be grandfathered under the current rule.

Dele5,

I'm closing on my first resale Marriott so I might not be 100% accurate, but here is what I understand: 1) If you own at the resort and make the reservation thru the resort using your unit ownership you will always be able to know if you will have your guaranteed view, regardless of when you make your reservation. 2) If you use your Marriott unit to reserve at another Marriott resort you do not have a guaranteed view but you are able to request a view. I think you can verify the view of your unit 1 month in advance, but it might be 1 or two weeks in advance.

Based on my experience with Wyndham, if Marriott can legally take away re-sale owner priveleges they will more than likely not grandfather previous re-sale purchasers.

Be carefull with Marriott. They act in bad faith on transactions unless you buy from their company. They are very poor to deal with.

rick493 wrote:

Be carefull with Marriott. They act in bad faith on transactions unless you buy from their company. They are very poor to deal with.

I don't actually know much about Marriott, but this vague complaint completely lacks any supporting facts or descriptive details of any kind. With all due respect, if you are going to publicly point the finger of accusation in this manner, you should also have the courtesy and decency to "back up" your allegation with some actual facts.

Our first two timeshare purchases were directly through Marriott. Our next four purchases were on the resale market for about 1/3rd of Marriott's price. Our "resale" weeks trade very efficiently through II after I learned how II works. Since we bought premium ski weeks at a smaller resort (Timber Lodge) our weeks trade for nearly anything we want, when we want, if done at the earliest possible time. We also have the advantage that we love Timber Lodge and love staying there a couple times a year for two weeks or more to ski.

Bottom line, (1) buy "resale"; (2) buy for dirty cheap, lower than you can imagine anyone would sell for; (3) buy high demand resorts in premium season, since you are getting them so cheap; (4) learn the trading techniques of II; and (5) buy where you love staying. Otherwise, don't buy a timeshare.

Doing the math, if you buy correctly and use your timeshare, it still takes five to seven years to brake even on the purchase over just paying for lodging as you go.

For us it is like having vacation homes that we don't have to maintain year round and that can be somewhat easily traded.

wisee wrote:

For us it is like having vacation homes that we don't have to maintain year round and that can be somewhat easily traded.

Very well said and an observation which is equally true of ANY good timeshare ownership; not just within Marriott. I disagree a bit about the "ease" of trading, since the "exchange game" is one in which the rules continually change and the goalposts keep getting moved.

No one likes ongoing increases in maintenance fees, but what in this world ever goes DOWN in cost? (certainly not food, fuel, insurance, utilities, etc.). Until such time as my annual maintenance fees actually exceed the cost of a weekly rental of a fully equipped, well maintained condominium unit with pool, on site staff and other amenities of equal or better quality, I'll personally continue to regard timeshare as "the only way to go" and I will gratefully pay my maintenance fees without complaint and enjoy my vacations.

Having once owned a second "vacation" home, I learned a costly lesson. "Vacation" home ownership actually meant doubling my expenses and headaches with repairs, maintenance, insurance, utilities, groundskeeping, etc. on a second home. Good riddance to all of that, as far as I'm concerned; one home is more than enough for such costs. I'll take timeshare ownership instead any day...

ann286 wrote:

jayjay wrote:

Buying resale is the way to go, but make sure you're getting a decent resale deal. You can save yourself a lot of money by doing so.

By buying from the developer you may get a few perks that you won't get with a resale, but those perks are not worth the amount you will pay over a resale.

Marriott has first right of refusal on all weeks being resold. With that being said, Marriott picks up most units that are being offered below current Market value. Therefore, you can begin a purchase and once it goes across the Marriott desk to be signed off on, you risk the chance of not getting it.

Alway purchase thru Marriott as this entitles you to the point program and Marriott will resell it for you down the road and service your account. Buying externally opens you up for disappointments down the road. This does not hold true for off brand timeshares but with Marriott, the point program is what makes us!

Lynn Galligan

We have enjoyed our timeshare ownerships most of which were acquired directly from Marriott. We did pay a lot of money for our timeshares but our family members don't look at it that way. Twenty-three of us gathered this summer at Newport Villas and all had a great time.

Having said that about our experience, I think you can get all of this by acquiring in the secondary market by buying the "resort and season" you want. You can also trade thru Interval for other locations. However, you would not be eligible for Marriott Rewards Points or Vacation Club Plus points. You can get most of what you want for a very low cost in the secondary market.

What's the big deal? As you say, "...you risk the chance of not getting it." Big deal, nothing is lost. It isn't like you lose your deposit.

In the last 12 months I have purchased four 2B/2B premium ski weeks at Marriott's Timber Lodge for 33% of what Marriott was selling them for.

I don't undestand what Lynn is refering to when she says, "Buying externally opens you up for disappointments down the road."

No one should be buying timeshares thinking they are going to use them and then make money reselling them. Marriotts' perks for buy through them certainly are not worth the additional price they charge.

I took the tour at Canyon Villas - Phoenix. Developer cost $29,000. Ebay purchase $8,000.

I took the tour at Grande Vista, Orlando $27,000 and at Lakeshore Reserve (I think $35,000). The Grande Vista Platinum weeks trade for less than $5,000

Also - buy Platinum and get the vacaton weeks you want, the maintenance fees on Silver and Gold are so high you are better off renting.

I purchased a platinum week Marriott Grande Vista in Orlando on resale several years back. I have been able to exchange within Marriott to Williamsburg and even Aruba. However, I still don't completely understand the best way to trade outside the system using II. I have two weeks (2011 & 2012) that I have deposited into II and am looking to use both of them in the same year/same week so that family can join us. What is the best way to do this within II? I have tried 3 separate days to call and end up not getting anywhere do to high hold times and difficulty in communicating with the representative. Does Marriott have an agent that can help with this or is that not offered to resale buyers? Thanks for any help.

Marriott has a desk with II that you need to talk to if you are exchanging through II. I would do a request first exchange where you request what you want it it becomes available. Now that Marriott has added the destinations program, it may be harder to exchange that way.