TimeShare by Owners

Anyone have any experience with a company called Time Share by Owners? I got a call from them yesterday,and was told they could get me as much as $20,000 for my unit in Ft Lauderdale. Naturally, I'm sceptical. They claim they have been in business over 20 years and have a proven track record. Supposedly they will agressively market your place until it is sold, but they have an up front fee of $900 plus, which they offered to reduce to $590 if I would agree to write a letter which they could use in their advertising after my unit is sold. I believe they also said that they were a member in good standing of the BBB. Any Comments?

If you were cold-called it's almost certainly a scam - I mean, how would they know you wanted to sell it?

They told you they could get you as much as $20,000 for your week? There isn't a timeshare in the world where you could expect to get $20K on a resale. If people are advertising at 10 per cent of that figure and getting no reponse to their advertisements years later, how do these guys expect to be able to get you so much? They can't - especially not in the current financial "crisis".

If they are asking hundreds of dollars "up front" - regardless of their excuses/reasons - you can be sure that, if you pay it, you'll never hear from them again. Why should they do anything whatsoever to sell your timeshare if they've already got your cash?

Reputable resalers take their commission from the proceeds of the sale.

Thousands of people have been conned out of their money by organisations like this, who change their names as often as I change my clothes. Don't become another victim.

Thanks for the input. I suspected any responses I got would be pretty much what you said. I currently have the unit in question advertised on Redweek, and I haven't gotten any response here, except for someone who wanted to rent it for a business trip she was taking to Ft. Lauderdale, and I didn't get a response from her, after I quoted her the going rate for the same type units I saw advertised here. When I got the call, I was just asked if I wanted to sell or rent my unit in Orlando, so I imagine they can get lists of owners easily enough. I brought up the Ft. Lauderdale place to see what she might say. She was supposed to e-mail me back but I never got the e-mail.

I don't agree that only "Reputable resalers take their commission from the proceeds of the sale.". While there are indeed a lot of companies which focus on securing fees from owners and do not make much effort to market the units, only a licensed broker or real estate agent can list real property (Deeded timeshares are real property) for sale. Managing rentals is a bit different. But the basic concept is that if you market timeshares for sale and rent and you are not licensed, you can only charge a listing fee for the sale and (for the most part) forward purchase inquiries to the owner.

Since most unlicensed companies want to address sales and rentals, they use up front fee structures to list the units and leave the transaction betweeen the owners and customers. Unfortunatly this leaves a lot of room for scam companies to pretend to have a thriving business when the only thing thriving is their ability to comvince owners to pay money for services which are less than acceptable.

I think Redweek, SellMyTimeshareNow, VRBO, TimeshareVacationNow, and a few other websites provide acceptable FSBO/FRBO services and they all charge a fee up front. Other free sites can be very helpful of course. But let's give credit where credit is due. Some up front fee companies to in fact provide an acceptable service!

peterp151 wrote:

But the basic concept is that if you market timeshares for sale and rent and you are not licensed, you can only charge a listing fee for the sale and (for the most part) forward purchase inquiries to the owner.

Vacation Timeshare Rentals offers various options. A free listing, a one-time payment option, a llife-time listing, or a listing where the fee is deducted after the transaction.

peterp151 wrote:

... only a licensed broker or real estate agent can list real property (Deeded timeshares are real property) for sale. But the basic concept is that if you market timeshares for sale and rent and you are not licensed, you can only charge a listing fee for the sale and (for the most part) forward purchase inquiries to the owner.

If this is the case why aren't licensed real estate brokers the only people that CAN sell timeshares just like they sell and list houses with absolutely no upfront fee involved ... they get their commission after they sell.

Anyone can set up a timeshare sales site without any licensing whatsoever and they get away with it by calling it a listing fee or advertising fee taking millions of money from their clients with no intention of selling anything .... all they want is the upfront fee. You say that timeshares are real deeded property as are homes, so how do timeshare upfront fee resellers get away with their scams if timeshares are indeed real deeded property?

In response to mike1536 saying maybe there isn't a law that prevents agencies from collecting these fees after the transaction has taken place, I think a fee after the sale is considered a commission regardless of whether it is a percent or fixed amount.

Possibly the companies only interested in soliciting payment from owners misrepresent what constitutes a licensed agent task vs tasks non licensed entities are allowed to do. So far they insist to me that any monies paid after the transaction qualifies as a commision which only a licensed agent can receive.

I am certain that only a licensed real estate agent / broker can represent the owner of real property. My definition of "represent" is answering customer questions about specific property for sale (as opposed to general questions about the resort and unit types), taking a role to submit offers or acting in the best interest of either party when the two parties communicate, actively participating in the offer / counter offer between buyer and seller. I have also read about a number of unlicensed companies charged with selling property they paid for but did not transfer into their name. Apparently you must be licensed in order to conduct transactions where you paid the seller and then sold to a buyer without recording your purchse deed prior to entering into contract to sell. I'm sure there are more criterion, but these should be sufficient for a basic qualification.

A non licensed agent may only provide services more similar to a classified ad. Redweek, VRBO, SMTN, etc all charge a fee up front to make the ad available. Customers are enabled to make inquiries thru the site but communicate directly with the owner, and from there all communication is pretty much between customer/owner. Somewhere in all this there must be a grey area for how much the non licensed agent can do but lines get crossed somewhere and I'm guessing when it comes to money the definition of when payment is made is a part of whether you must be licensed.

But here's a more important clarification. If a non licensed agent is not allowed to "represent" the owner per my definition, then they have no control over communications between the owner and customer. Since they lose control of the communication they do not have the ability to control the payment from customer to owner and probably will not have sufficient knowledge when a transaction is complete and thus they are unable to enforce a fee after the sale of a property.

SO, I think a non-licensed agent COULD fully represent owners renting out their units. As far as I am aware real estate laws do not restrict non licensed agents from managing rentals, only the sale of real property. As far as I'm aware, only TimeshareVacationNow offers this type of opportunity for rentals. And even they usually have a small up front fee with a larger commission once the unit is rented.

One thing I do not know anything about at all is how the sale of non-deeded timeshares are treated. DRI US Collections contracts for example are essentially membership contracts which never expire. Owning one of these pretty much gives the owner the same never ending ownership as a deeded timeshare which can be sold or otherwise transfered the same as deeded except of course a transfer form is processed thru DRI rather than recording a deed in the county the deeded timeshare resides in. Is a licensed agent the only one legally alowed to represent the owner, or can an unlicensed agent also represent the owner rather than only providing classified ad services? Please remember, other people can sell property they don't own. Giving someone a Power of Attorney, limited POA, or the trustee of a trust are examples of individuals with legal authority to represent an owner when selling real property.

Sorry to keep blabering! But these scam companies tend to insinuate they already have a customer when they call. I would think this means one of three things. 1) They have a licensed agent on staff to represent the buyer regardless of whether the buyer is in fact looking for your specific unit, which begs the issue of why they are charging a fee up front (scam) rather than back end commisison, 2) They are of course lying about the buyer just to get your money, OR 3) If they do have a buyer and that buyer is not the owner of the company then they are in violation of real estate law by representing the buyer and you the selling owner in the transaction.

peterp151 wrote:

In response to mike1536 saying maybe there isn't a law that prevents agencies from collecting these fees after the transaction has taken place, I think a fee after the sale is considered a commission regardless of whether it is a percent or fixed amount.

jayjay wrote:

If this is the case why aren't licensed real estate brokers the only people that CAN sell timeshares just like they sell and list houses with absolutely no upfront fee involved ... they get their commission after they sell.

Anyone can set up a timeshare sales site without any licensing whatsoever and they get away with it by calling it a listing fee or advertising fee taking millions of money from their clients with no intention of selling anything .... all they want is the upfront fee. You say that timeshares are real deeded property as are homes, so how do timeshare upfront fee resellers get away with their scams if timeshares are indeed real deeded property?

The difference is an unlicensed agent can offer listing services similar to classified ads, but can't represent the owner or customer. At least not for the sale of deeded real property. Maybe I or someone can find a website(s) to help clarify what a licensed agent can do that an unlicensed agent can't. Either a government site with the legal text, and article from a reporting agency, or a legal website.

I think the scam companies get away with what they are doing because few people sue and in the rare cases someone sues or an AG investigates, the scam company can show they have some form of advertising and they included the subject "scammed" customer and thus they met the minimum criterion for what they agreed to provide in the contract the owner signed.

The bigest problem for owners is they provide a credit card over the phone without written agreement what they are paying for. Then they do not have evidence they were scammed. Others sign the contracts without reading and understanding the contracts they sign. All but one contract I've seen in the last 2 years builds loopholes for the scamming company allowing them to charge the owner for listing services without any true assurances of getting the unit sold. Same goes for the refunds. My favorite is the contract which says if you can prove you sold your unit for no more than 20% less than the price listed with the scam company you will receive a full refund. The scam company agrees to list your unit for $20,000 but you can only sell it for on your own $2,000. They get to keep your money.

My point initially made though is that there are legitimate companies which charge up front fees. Their services might not work out for you. But just because your unit didn't rent doesn't mean they scammed you. It means their advertising services or your price/dates failed to result in securing a customer.

Telling the difference between a scammer and a legitimate service can be difficult, if not impossible. When in doubt, don't spend too much. But please do not call all companies charging up front fees scammers. SellMyTimeshareNow and VRBO charge fairly large fees and they are completely legitimate even if their sales people are a bit snakey!

mike1536 wrote:

Well I know of one timeshare site that collects a 19% fee, commission, etc, AFTER the transaction.

I guess we are getting a bit confused, myself included. The 19% fee VacationTimeshareRentals offers is only for rentals, not sales. In order to accomplish this, they have strict policies that all communication between renter and owner be performed thru their website and the two people never share phone or e-mail information. VTR processes the payment between parties as well.

This example supports what I said that it is possible for a non licensed agent to accept a commission on a rental, but still does not conflict what I said that the non-licensed agent can't accept a commission on a sale.

A difference betweer VTR and TimeshareVacationNow is that VTR still leaves all communication and work between owner and prospective renters while monitoring the messaging or possibly blocking messages which contain phone numbers or e-mail information. TVN manages all the communication from the renters and when a renter has committed and paid, then the owner is contacted and paid. TVN charges $50 or more up front, then 20% upon the rental so it costs more. But TVN handles all the work with the prospective customers, in effect providing more service than VTR since the owner never has to deal with the time consuming customer inquiries. VTR however has a superior website. I believe though, that VTR only advertises on its own site while TVN cross advertises on other sites.

peterp151 wrote:

The bigest problem for owners is they provide a credit card over the phone without written agreement what they are paying for. Then they do not have evidence they were scammed. Others sign the contracts without reading and understanding the contracts they sign. All but one contract I've seen in the last 2 years builds loopholes for the scamming company allowing them to charge the owner for listing services without any true assurances of getting the unit sold. Same goes for the refunds.

And therein the problems with upfront fee resale companies. They tell the prospective client all kinds of lies including we have a (or several) buyers waiting in line to buy your timeshare or we can guarantee you that we will get an astronimical price for your timeshare (all lies) when in truth they have an obscure database of timeshares that nobody will see where they've scammed people of their credit card numbers for listings .... the upfront fee is all they want.

In all the years I've been reading timeshare forums on the internet I have never seen one verified case where an upfont fee company sold a timeshare .... their job is complete when they get that several hundred to thousand dollar upfront fee.

Quote:

Telling the difference between a scammer and a legitimate service can be difficult, if not impossible.

Any resale company asking for an upfront fee in the hundreds/thousands of dollars are all scams. If they were legitimate, they would take their fee after the sale not before. There is no way on God's green earth that I would fall for those scammer's lies and hand over my credit card to them for doing absolutely nothing, but those people will you tell anything to get that upfront fee.

Quote:

When in doubt, don't spend too much. But please do not call all companies charging up front fees scammers. SellMyTimeshareNow and VRBO charge fairly large fees and they are completely legitimate even if their sales people are a bit snakey!

One more time, if they ask for an upfront fee then they are scams, period, see my paragraph above. I don't know what VRBO charges for rental listings, but I always go to their site when looking for a vacation rental if I can't find a suitable timeshare rental. We have rented from VRBO several times in the past ..... as a matter of fact, we just returned from a vacation that we used VRBO for a rental ..... they are highly recommended by travelers and their site is very easy to navigate much like Redweek's timeshare sales and rentals site is.

I, and all other knowledgable timeshare consumer advocates, still recommmend that everyone stay away from upfront fee resale companies and we always will.

There's at least one UK resale company - no names to avoid giving them free advertising, but they're probably the biggest - that does not charge the sellers anything. They charge a fixed 299 GBP fee to the buyer, which includes escrow, etc. The only cost deducted from the sale price is the resort transfer fee. They do charge an upfront fee of around 100 GBP if you wish them to advertise your timeshare on their website, but I understand that an awful lot of folk don't take them up on the offer and I doubt that the internet advertising really makes that much difference.

davidd320 wrote:

There's at least one UK resale company - no names to avoid giving them free advertising, but they're probably the biggest - that does not charge the sellers anything. They charge a fixed 299 GBP fee to the buyer, which includes escrow, etc. The only cost deducted from the sale price is the resort transfer fee.

This is the way all resale companies should do business or at least take any fee from the seller after the sale, not before.