Ripoff - Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Program - New Point System

Jim, I read this differently.

Let's see, you are upset with Marriott for selling you weeks in prime areas that have not depreciated like the rest of the timeshare weeks? Then, Marriott offers to buy them back at 40% of your cost but you know you can do trades, rent them, use them, trade for lots of Dest Pts, etc. Your timeshare yields an extraordinary benefit (return) to you by keeping it, so you say "nuts" to the offer.

Why be angry with Vacation Club or Bill Marriott? You have won the game and holders of "great" weeks control the game! It sounds like the actions of Vacation Club worked to your advantage.

Why, I'd send a big "Thank You" letter to Vacation Club and to Bill Marriott!

YOUR RIGHT, I'M FINE BECAUSE I KNOW HOW TO WORK THE SYSTEM AND I HAVE NO REASON TO SELL AT THIS TIME. HOWEVER, I PROBABLY REPRESENT ABOUT 10% OF THE OWNERS WHO UNDERSTAND HOW TO MAXIMIZE YOUR ASSETS AND DON'T HAVE TO SELL BECAUSE OF HEALTH, CAN'T AFFORD THE INCREASES IN MAINTENANCE FEES ,DIVORCES, ECONOMIC STRESS, OR LACK OF HEIRS FOR THE TIMESHARES. THE 90% ARE THE OWNERS THAT I'M TRYING TO EDUCATE ON WHAT TO DO AND NOT DO. THESE OWNERS ARE BEING TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF BY MARRIOTT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET A FAIR PRICE FOR THE CONDOS THEY PURCHASED. NOW YOU CAN SAY THE WHOLE MARKET OF HOUSING HAS DEPRECIATED, BUT YOU WOULDN'T KNOW THAT BY WHAT MARRIOTT IS SELLING THE SAME CONDOS IN POINT VALUE. IF FOR EXAMPLE THEY WERE SELLING ARUBA SURF CLUB UNITS FOR $25,000, I COULD UNDERSTAND THEM OFFERING A $14,000 BUYBACK, BUT THEY ARE RESELLING THEM FOR $46,000 SO IT LOOKS LIKE THE DEPRECIATING THEORY ONLY WORKS ONE WAY--MARRIOTT;S. THAT'S WHY I'M SUGGESTING THE OWNERS WHO HAVE TO SELL INSIST ON GETTING THEIR PURCHASE PRICE BACK FROM MARRIOTT OR BETTER YET, SELL TO AN OUTSIDE BUYER. IF MARRIOTT CAN'T GET THESE LOWCOST BUYBACKS, THEY WILL EVENTUALLY RAISE THEIR PRICES BECAUSE THEY NEED THOSE HIGH PROFILE LOCATIONS TO SATISFY THEIR SALES PITCH OF THE NEW POINT SYSTEM--BUY AND GO ANYWHERE IN OUR SYSTEM. IF THEY DON'T HAVE PROPERTY IN THE TOP WANTED RESORTS OR IF THEY ARE SO LIMITED IN THOSE AREAS, THEY WILL BE HEARING FROM ALL THESE PEOPLE THAT HAVE PAID THESE HIGH PRICES.

I STILL ASK OWNERS IN ARUBA AND HAWAII AS WELL AS SOME OF THE OTHER HIGHEST REQUESTED RESORTS, DON;T SELL TO MARRIOTT UNLESS THEY WILL GIVE YOU A FAIR PRICE, SELL TO AN OUTSIDER. AND FOR BUYER, BUY FROM AN OWNER AND SAVE A BUNDLE FOR THE SAME CONDO AND SAME LOCATION.

I HAVE SPOKEN TO SEVERAL FRIENDS RECENTLY WHO HAVE SET IN ON TIMESHARE SALES PRESENTATIONS FROM TWO DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS, AND THEY TELL ME MARRIOTT IS GETTING VERY BAD EXPOSURE AND ITS HELPING TO STIR PROSPECTS FROM MARRIOTT AND MAYBE TIMESHARES IN GENERAL. THAT'S WHY I BELIEVE THE SYSTEM I RECOMMENDED FOR TIMESHARE COMPANIES TO USE REGARDING BUYBACKS IS A GOOD SOLUTION FOR AN OTHERWISE POORLY THOUGHT OF INDUSTRY.

jimb387 wrote:

YOUR RIGHT, I'M FINE BECAUSE I KNOW HOW TO WORK THE SYSTEM AND I HAVE NO REASON TO SELL AT THIS TIME. HOWEVER, I PROBABLY REPRESENT ABOUT 10% OF THE OWNERS WHO UNDERSTAND HOW TO MAXIMIZE YOUR ASSETS AND DON'T HAVE TO SELL BECAUSE OF HEALTH, CAN'T AFFORD THE INCREASES IN MAINTENANCE FEES ,DIVORCES, ECONOMIC STRESS, OR LACK OF HEIRS FOR THE TIMESHARES. THE 90% ARE THE OWNERS THAT I'M TRYING TO EDUCATE ON WHAT TO DO AND NOT DO. THESE OWNERS ARE BEING TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF BY MARRIOTT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET A FAIR PRICE FOR THE CONDOS THEY PURCHASED. NOW YOU CAN SAY THE WHOLE MARKET OF HOUSING HAS DEPRECIATED, BUT YOU WOULDN'T KNOW THAT BY WHAT MARRIOTT IS SELLING THE SAME CONDOS IN POINT VALUE. IF FOR EXAMPLE THEY WERE SELLING ARUBA SURF CLUB UNITS FOR $25,000, I COULD UNDERSTAND THEM OFFERING A $14,000 BUYBACK, BUT THEY ARE RESELLING THEM FOR $46,000 SO IT LOOKS LIKE THE DEPRECIATING THEORY ONLY WORKS ONE WAY--MARRIOTT;S. THAT'S WHY I'M SUGGESTING THE OWNERS WHO HAVE TO SELL INSIST ON GETTING THEIR PURCHASE PRICE BACK FROM MARRIOTT OR BETTER YET, SELL TO AN OUTSIDE BUYER. IF MARRIOTT CAN'T GET THESE LOWCOST BUYBACKS, THEY WILL EVENTUALLY RAISE THEIR PRICES BECAUSE THEY NEED THOSE HIGH PROFILE LOCATIONS TO SATISFY THEIR SALES PITCH OF THE NEW POINT SYSTEM--BUY AND GO ANYWHERE IN OUR SYSTEM. IF THEY DON'T HAVE PROPERTY IN THE TOP WANTED RESORTS OR IF THEY ARE SO LIMITED IN THOSE AREAS, THEY WILL BE HEARING FROM ALL THESE PEOPLE THAT HAVE PAID THESE HIGH PRICES.

I STILL ASK OWNERS IN ARUBA AND HAWAII AS WELL AS SOME OF THE OTHER HIGHEST REQUESTED RESORTS, DON;T SELL TO MARRIOTT UNLESS THEY WILL GIVE YOU A FAIR PRICE, SELL TO AN OUTSIDER. AND FOR BUYER, BUY FROM AN OWNER AND SAVE A BUNDLE FOR THE SAME CONDO AND SAME LOCATION.

I HAVE SPOKEN TO SEVERAL FRIENDS RECENTLY WHO HAVE SET IN ON TIMESHARE SALES PRESENTATIONS FROM TWO DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS, AND THEY TELL ME MARRIOTT IS GETTING VERY BAD EXPOSURE AND ITS HELPING TO STIR PROSPECTS FROM MARRIOTT AND MAYBE TIMESHARES IN GENERAL. THAT'S WHY I BELIEVE THE SYSTEM I RECOMMENDED FOR TIMESHARE COMPANIES TO USE REGARDING BUYBACKS IS A GOOD SOLUTION FOR AN OTHERWISE POORLY THOUGHT OF INDUSTRY.

Dennis' comment - Has anyone out there experienced a time, pre or post Destinations, when timeshares were re-acquired by the developer at a price in excess of 50% of the cost to the owner? I do remember incidents where they were re-acquired at 60% of cost in the form of a credit against another timeshare purchase. Second, is this lack of buyback peculiar to Marriott or is it industry wide?

I suspect that, as timeshare owners, we have all lost at least half+ of our cost following purchase from Marriott or any other developer. Further, the loss appears to be much more than 50%. Many of us have chosen to buy in the secondary market for this very reason. Again, this is the industry - not just Marriott.

Buying a timeshare is probably much like buying a new computer or a new dress (for my wife) and then trying to resell it. Expect an immediate substantial loss in value exceeding 50% - if you can sell it at all. One might as well just enjoy the new dress (and pay the maintenance fees).

Timeshares are a luxury item with little, if any, residual value coupled with a substantial ongoing cost. I cannot justify my purchase of these by any cost justification measure. Most of us buy them to use them and are able to have many expensive vacations (considering the loss in value of our timeshares) at nice locations.

My husband and i did buy our Marriott properties as an investment--as an. investment in our travel vacations. We will be passing these on to our children--who do want them from exactly the same reasons. Marriott is unsurpassed in quality and we have met a lot of wonderful like-minded folks in our travels. We feel we have the best of all worlds by being a legacy owner and an enrolled member of the Destinations Program. We don't see the need to buy Trust Points. With Marriott there are no nasty surprises when it come to a quality vacation.

Dennis, I bought Desert Springs Villas I in 1999 on a resale for just under $18,000 and have made the most out of exchanging for rewards points, locking it off and trading the smaller portion (and the larger, of course), for two-bedroom residences all over the world. In 2005 or 2006, I received a call from Marriott's resale department, offering to buy my unit for just over $20,000 net to me. I was told they had a shortage of inventory at the time. (Apparently those same resales were then going for over $30,000 when buying from Marriott.). I've never regretted turning them down, as I continue to make the most out of my ownership. But I was quite surprised to learn that it might actually have been possible to make a profit in timeshare - at least for that brief window of time!

I'm delighted to hear that some are seeing higher values should they decide to liquidate. I haven't seen this. I would expect values for aftermarket timeshares to improve due to the pricing of Dest Pts. Why would a knowledgeable buyer buy 4,700 Pts ($50,000) to trade into a Newport Villas Plat week that he could acquire for $8,000? This alone should drive aftermarket prices up over time.

Jimb38, I'm a 3 years owner of a 3 bed lockout in Grand Vista Orlando. I'm not selling, i'm just trying to understand the point system and trying to figure out if we just book our week next year (may 2013) or use the points. We only really need a 1 bed room, maybe a 2 if we need to, so do we deposit our 3 bedroom and lock off a 2/1 for two vacations??? Still really new at this. I would appreciate any assistance. or call if u like 847-331-2263 dan

Hi - just a general question. If you buy a timeshare from an owner in the secondary market, do you have all the same "rights/perks" as if you'd purchased directly from Marriott? I am pretty sure (yet starting to question my memory after reading these posts) that I was told when we purchase in Aruba from Marriott in 2001ish that if you didn't buy from Marriott you didn't get all the benefits. I am toying with the idea of buy from an existing owner. Thanks! Tracey

traceyf29 wrote:

Hi - just a general question. If you buy a timeshare from an owner in the secondary market, do you have all the same "rights/perks" as if you'd purchased directly from Marriott? I am pretty sure (yet starting to question my memory after reading these posts) that I was told when we purchase in Aruba from Marriott in 2001ish that if you didn't buy from Marriott you didn't get all the benefits. I am toying with the idea of buy from an existing owner. Thanks! Tracey

Buying privately - You cannot trade for Marriott Rewards Pts. You cannot enroll the week in Destinations. Of course, you can't finance such purchases thru Marriott.

You can enroll the week in Interval and deposit, trade, etc. You can use and rent the week.

Others, please remind me of anything I have missed. I can't think of anything else that I haven't been able to do with my privately purchased weeks.

THERE ARE FOUR THINGS YOU CAN DO WITH YOUR MARRIOTT PURCHASE OF A TIMESHARE 1) TRADE IT TO MARRIOTT FOR POINTS UNDER WHAT EVER SYSTEM YOU ARE UNDER 2) USE THE WEEK YOURSELF 3) RENT THE WEEK TO SOMEONE ELSE 4) TRADE THE WEEK THRU INTERVAL FOR ANOTHER WEEK SOMEWHERE ELSE.

MARRIOTT TRIES TO DISCOURAGE YOU FROM BUYING FROM A OWNER BECAUSE THEY WON'T HONOR YOUR REQUEST TO TRADE FOR POINTS WITH THEM. HOWEVER, I HAVE 6 TIMESHARES WITH THEM AND HAVEN'T TRADED WITH MARRIOTT FOR THE LAST 6 YEARS, EITHER USING THEM MYSELF, RENTING THEM, OR TRADING THEM. I FIND GETTING POINTS FROM MARRIOTT IS NOT EFFICIENT AS THE OWNER GETS THE SHORT END THE DEAL. OVER THE YEARS THEY HAVEN'T RAISED THE AMOUNT OF POINTS THEY GIVE YOU, BUT THEY RAISE THE AMOUNT OF POINTS YOU NEED TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE, THAT'S WHAT I MEAN ABOUT SHORT END.

THE IMPORTANT THING IS TO MAKE RESERVATIONS AS FAR IN ADVANCE AS THE CONTRACT ALLOWS YOU TO. IF IT'S 12 MOS OR 13MOS, DO IT THEN. MAKE THE RESERVATIONS FOR THE PEAK SEASON IN YOU RESORT, WHETHER YOU KNOW YOU CAN GO THAT WEEK OR NOT. IF YOU CAN GO, YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEK. IF YOU CAN'T GO, YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEK TO RENT OR TRADE.I KNOW SETTING VACATIONS FOR YOURSELF IS HARD TO THINK 12-13 MONTHS AHEAD, BUT THIS IS HOW YOU BEAT THE SYSTEM, OTHERWISE YOUR TOO LATE FOR EVERYTHING AND STUCK WITH AN EMPTY CONDO AND THE MAINTENCE FEES.

HOPE THIS HELPS YOU AND ANSWERS YOU QUESTION.

AND YES, I'M BUYING ANOTHER ARUBA CONDO FROM AN OWNER AT 50% LESS THAN I PAID FOR MY ORIGNAL 3 CONDOS.

JIM

I DON'T KNOW WHY I KEEP GETTING SURPRISED WHEN MARRIOTT RIPS ME OFF AGAIN. I FINALLY GOT A BUYER TO PAY ME 1/2 WHAT I PAID FOR THESE 2500 POINTS. SO MARRIOTT SAYS IT'S $200 PER UNIT FEE TO CHANGE THE DEED. I SAID FINE, I'LL PAY THE $200. THEY SAID NO, INSTEAD OF SELLING YOU ONE UNIT OF 2500 POINTS, WE PUT IT IN THE PAPERS AS 10 UNITS OF 250 EACH. SO YOU HAVE TO PAY $200 TRANSFER FEE 10 TIMES. NOW WHY DO YOU THINK THEY DID THAT? MONEY GRUBBERS. THEN TO TOP IT OFF, THEY CHARGE $300 "OWNER EDUCATION FEE" TO TEACH THE NEW OWNER HOW TO USE THE POINTS. ANOTHER USELESS GARBAGE FEE. THEN THEY TELL ME THAT IF I'M SELLING THEM SO CHEAP, THEY'LL BLOCK THE SALE, BUY THEM THEMSELVES AND SELL THEM AT FULL PRICE TO ANOTHER UNSUSPECTING FOOL. THEY HAVE EVERY SINGLE KIND OF WAY BLOCKED THAT WOULD ALLOW ME A QUICK WAY TO GET RID OF THESE STINKING POINTS AFTER CONNING ME INTO THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE BY DECEIT AND LIES. I CAN'T WAIT FOR IT TO BE OVER. I JUST WANT THESE OUT OF MY LIFE. WHEN I ASKED THEM TO SELL THEM FOR ME, THEY SAID THEY DON'T HAVE A RESALES DEPT FOR POINTS. WHEN I ASKED THEM TO JUST TAKE THEM BACK, THAT THEY WERE SOLD TO ME BY FRAUD, THEY SAID "THAT'S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN". AND THEN THEY BLOCK A SALE I ARRANGED MYSELF ON TOP OF IT. I HATE THIS PROGRAM IN CASE YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE MESSAGE.

Tracey, Purchase from an owner on the secondary market. Aruba may seem attractive, but the travel expenses and travel time should be considered.

Marriott will not grant the 100,000+ Marriott Reward points ever other year should you not want to use the unit. However, the best plan is to purchase the villa that you will use, and Aruba will always have HIGH trading power.

You are investing in lifestyle and not in real estate. Do not purchase directly from Marriott (points or otherwise.) Deposit your thousands of dollars of savings and use for transportation and the $1000.00+ annual maintenance fee.

Can I have a copy of your points book? Was never given it. Thanks!

The points "book" is also on line at the Marriott timeshare site.

I own a week at a different company and am in Interval International. I was told that i would not have to have two Interval International accounts and could cancel my old account because my yearly fee for Destinations includes an Interval International membership. After I enrolled in the program, Interval told me that i had to keep both accounts if I wanted to trade my non Marriott week. Not what the Marriott salesman told me.

CharlesZ: Of course the salesman is uniformed! Or just plain ignorant! Marriott has "pulled this trick" for years, and it is very deceitful for a corporation of Marriott's caliber.

There is a resolution, but you will not like it.

Which is?

I just discovered this forum and have been trying to catch up with the posts. I am struggling with the same dilemma - whether or not to join the Destinations program. Like some others, I found the saleswoman who answered my call, to be very impatient, and frankly condescending and harsh. We have been Marriott owners for 20 years. Until the last few years, we enjoyed successful trades with our two weeks - both at Desert Springs I; one week a white week and the other a blue week we bought as a resale, but through Marriott corporate. The second week we bought only to trade.

We have exchanged our white week for points on alternate years and love the ability to use them at hotels. Unfortunately, due to my poor planning, I have lost control of the system and have too many weeks deposited with II and have not been able to trade on the limited times we have had available over the past few years. The maintenance fees are about $1,000 per unit and we would love to get rid of the Blue week. Could someone let me know who you spoke with at Marriott who gave you their offers to buy your units? I realize that most are not happy with the % discount, but at this point I would be happy to get out of our blue week and not have to pay the maintenance fee.

The other option, of course, is to enroll both in the Destinations program. I will take someone's suggestion here and call Owner Services, rather than sales tomorrow. Thanks for any contact information on the Marriott buy-back

If you have two weeks it is difficuilt to give you advice on whether to buy into the the destinations program. It really depends on how you wish to use the weeks. This has been discussed in detail previously. However, your likihood of having Marriott purchase your week is almost zero. Ok to ask. But they only wish high demand weeks at high demand locations that they can get at a low price normally thru the first right of refusal progam.

ronald118 wrote:

CharlesZ: Of course the salesman is uniformed! Or just plain ignorant! Marriott has "pulled this trick" for years, and it is very deceitful for a corporation of Marriott's caliber.

There is a resolution, but you will not like it.

The solution is........?