Upfront fee resale companies are against the law in Florida .... report them ASAP

Please be aware of the following pulled from BBB.gov .....

(http://centralflorida.app.bbb.org/newsearch2.asp?ComID=073300175003582) "the State of Florida - the collection of advanced listing fees from Florida residents, regardless of the location of the property, and owners of Florida timeshares is prohibited. Section 721.20(6), Florida Statutes, prohibits the collection of any advance fee for the listing of any timeshare estate or timeshare license, and requires that any seller of a timeshare plan be a licensed real estate broker, broker associate or sales associate as defined in Section 475.01, Florida Statutes."

If that's the case, then why haven't all upfront fee companies in Florida, that are still in operation and are rampant across that state, been arrested and jailed if what they are continuing to do what is against the law? How are they continuing to get away with their scams ????

Someone that's been taken by any upfront fee scam company in the state of Florida needs to copy and paste that statute and then report the scammers to the law ASAP ..... my mission is to put every upfront fee resale/rental timeshare company completely out of business .... this is certainly a good way to start.

I read about (and reported in these RedWeek forums on) the passage of this particular new FL specific legislation some weeks ago. Frankly, I don't believe that the BBB summary quoted is at all an accurate portrayal of that new legislation.

To the best of my knowledge, the legislation (which had an effective date of July 1, 2009) did NOT (and does not now) actually prohibit the EXISTENCE of these upfront fee parasites. On the contrary, it merely imposes some very specific disclosure and reporting requirements on their sales success statistics (meaning, in effect, that they are now essentially required to openly admit and disclose to any potential "customer" that they virtually NEVER actually sell any timeshares).

In short, I'll readily stand to be corrected if mistaken, but I personally believe that the BBB source which you have quoted has materially and quite substantially misstated and misrepresented what this new FL legislation intends, says, and does...

Remember, the BBB is just a commercial "membership" organization --- NOT a governmental entity of ANY sort. I'd be willing to bet that whoever in the BBB prepared this material is not even a FL bar attorney at all in the first place. Accordingly, this layman's "legal interpretation" must certainly be taken with a grain (...or even many grains) of salt.

It looks to me like the statute was copied and pasted verbatim (not an interpretation) since it shows the exact sections, but below is the main part I was referring to .... it seems to be quite clear that it's against the law to sell timeshares without a real esate license and that collection of advance fees is prohibited:

"Section 721.20(6), Florida Statutes, prohibits the collection of any advance fee for the listing of any timeshare estate or timeshare license, and requires that any seller of a timeshare plan be a licensed real estate broker, broker associate or sales associate as defined in Section 475.01, Florida Statutes.""

Hi Here is the the article posted on the Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation as well as the link to the posting that would seem to confirm that it is against the law.

http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/os/News/TimeshareFees.html#

IMPORTANT NEWS... Court Rules in Landmark Case on Timeshare Advanced Listing Fees and Unlicensed Real Estate Activity July 8, 2009

TALLAHASSEE—Last Thursday concluded an 11-year court battle over timeshare advanced listing fees and the unlicensed practice of real estate by an out-of-state entity. In Department of Business and Professional Regulation v. Stroman Realty, Inc., Case No. 37 1998 CA 000490, Leon County Circuit Court Judge P. Kevin Davey ruled that a Florida real estate license is required for all transactions involving timeshare real estate property located in Florida and where the seller of the timeshare real estate interest resides in Florida. The court also ruled that the collection of advanced listing fees from Florida residents, regardless of the location of the property, and owners of Florida timeshares is prohibited.

The court retained jurisdiction to decide whether there should be penalties imposed, and if so, what would be the appropriate amount of penalties, including reimbursement to those complainants who filed a complaint with the department before the close of the trial.

The two issues at the heart of the matter are the 1995 legislation, Section 721.20(6), Florida Statutes, that prohibits the collection of any advance fee for the listing of any timeshare estate or timeshare license, and the requirement that any seller of a timeshare plan be a licensed real estate broker, broker associate or sales associate as defined in Section 475.01, Florida Statutes.

The department’s mission is to license efficiently and regulate fairly. The department licenses more than one million businesses and professionals ranging from real estate agents, veterinarians, and accountants to contractors and cosmetologists. For more information, please visit MyFloridaLicense.com.

chrisc162 wrote:

The two issues at the heart of the matter are the 1995 legislation, Section 721.20(6), Florida Statutes, that prohibits the collection of any advance fee for the listing of any timeshare estate or timeshare license, and the requirement that any seller of a timeshare plan be a licensed real estate broker, broker associate or sales associate as defined in Section 475.01, Florida Statutes.

Good night alive, you mean this statute took effect in 1995 but it's evidently meaningless since upfront fee resale companies are still in operation in Florida and are scamming people left and right .... SOMEBODY IN FLORIDA NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS SITUATION ... this is one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard ... what governmental body in Florida polices companies and businesses that outright ignore that state's legislation?

My business is located in FL. I am a Lic R E Broker for timeshare. After 30 yrs in this industry I am saddened about how the business is being handled in the secondary market. Too often when we try to discuss what our company can do for the sellers, they become too defensive and literally hang up the phone because they feel they have been taken advantage of in the past. We are continually "patching up" for the upfront fee companies. These upfront fee companies that are being discussed consider themselves an "advertising" company charging an "advertising fee" so why are they pitching real estate prices? Isn't this in itself against the law? The only people that can discuss the pricing of a property is a lic real estate agent. I believe the state of Fl created there own demons when they did not allow legitimate companies to charge simple fee's to keep them afloat, such as the appraisal fee, not that it is so necessary, but a good Real Estate business needs to offer payable services. The state of SC allows a small upfront processing fee because they recognize the need of the small business person and ReMax in TX charges $499. with a 10% sales commission. This helps keeps the sharks out of the their state. Thank you - Nancy Thomas,Broker

jayjay wrote:

...it seems to be quite clear that it's against the law to sell timeshares without a real esate license and that collection of advance fees is prohibited:

"Section 721.20(6), Florida Statutes, prohibits the collection of any advance fee for the listing of any timeshare estate or timeshare license, and requires that any seller of a timeshare plan be a licensed real estate broker, broker associate or sales associate as defined in Section 475.01, Florida Statutes.""

As I read this, it only applies to charging Florida residents for timeshares located anywhere, and to Florida timeshares regardless of the location of the owner.

So a registered real estate broker in Florida still can charge up-front fees to owners outside of Florida for timeshares located outside of Florida. That rules out the Florida market for these scammers, but they can operate in Florida as long as the clients and properties are outside the state. Losing Florida is a significant blow to them, but that still leaves a significant worldwide market to exploit.

Furthermore, if the scammer is located outside of Florida, good luck in getting any enforcement action against them, or in getting any of your fees returned, under the Florida statute.

The 1995 statute says NOTHING about Florida residents only .... it plainly states:

Section 721.20(6), "Florida Statutes, that prohibits the collection of any advance fee for the listing of any timeshare estate or timeshare license, and the requirement that any seller of a timeshare plan be a licensed real estate broker, broker associate or sales associate as defined in Section 475.01 ....".

jayjay wrote:

The 1995 statute says NOTHING about Florida residents only .... it plainly states:

Section 721.20(6), "Florida Statutes, that prohibits the collection of any advance fee for the listing of any timeshare estate or timeshare license, and the requirement that any seller of a timeshare plan be a licensed real estate broker, broker associate or sales associate as defined in Section 475.01 ....".

I was referring to the part in the quoted newspaper article which said "The court also ruled that the collection of advanced listing fees from Florida residents, regardless of the location of the property, and owners of Florida timeshares is prohibited."

My point was that the court's ruling seems to allow licensed real estate brokers etc. in Florida to collect up front fees if neither the seller nor the TS is in Florida.

orvillem5 wrote:

jayjay wrote:

The 1995 statute says NOTHING about Florida residents only .... it plainly states:

Section 721.20(6), "Florida Statutes, that prohibits the collection of any advance fee for the listing of any timeshare estate or timeshare license, and the requirement that any seller of a timeshare plan be a licensed real estate broker, broker associate or sales associate as defined in Section 475.01 ....".

I was referring to the part in the quoted newspaper article which said "The court also ruled that the collection of advanced listing fees from Florida residents, regardless of the location of the property, and owners of Florida timeshares is prohibited."

My point was that the court's ruling seems to allow licensed real estate brokers etc. in Florida to collect up front fees if neither the seller nor the TS is in Florida.

I don't see anything about licensed real estate brokers being able to take upfront fees for selling timeshares .... licensed real estate brokers are not allowed to take any upfront fee whatsoever for selling any kind of property.

Who specifically do I report these scam artist to as the BBB is working on my problem now.

jbajkane wrote:

...the BBB is working on my problem now.

The Better Business Bureau has no legal authority of any kind whatsover --- absolutely none. They sell memberships and they collect and compile compaint statistics. Beyond that, with all due respect, just what is it that you somehow believe the BBB to be "working on" on your behalf?

jbajkane wrote:

Who specifically do I report these scam artist to as the BBB is working on my problem now.

Contact the Florida attorney general's office ... you can do a forum search or a google search to find info on how to contact that agency.

There are companies that are charging fees and saying that they are not a "listing" company but a "marketing" company and therefore, the law does not apply to them. What do you say about those companies?? I've been told that the "retainer" fee that will be refunded goes for the title search and for other costs that they have to put out before we can get paid for our rentals.

susieh25 wrote:

There are companies that are charging fees and saying that they are not a "listing" company but a "marketing" company and therefore, the law does not apply to them. What do you say about those companies?? I've been told that the "retainer" fee that will be refunded goes for the title search and for other costs that they have to put out before we can get paid for our rentals.

Hogwash, the upfront fee is ALL they want, period, then you're history to them.

susieh25 wrote:

There are companies that are charging fees and saying that they are not a "listing" company but a "marketing" company and therefore, the law does not apply to them. What do you say about those companies?? I've been told that the "retainer" fee that will be refunded goes for the title search and for other costs that they have to put out before we can get paid for our rentals.

"Marketing" is just another term for "listing" in this industry. They "market" your property by listing it on their website --- plain and simple.

The one company that burned me said they have a "guarantee" my property would sell in 90 days. I called them around 90 days later and asked what happens if it didn't sell. Her response: "Then we will continue to market it at our expense." Translation: "We will keep it posted on our website."

The FL law states an upfront fee cannot be charged by resale companies when listing a timeshare for sale. The key word is "listing". Many of the companies are well within their rights to charge a fee for advertising a timeshare, as long as a "brokerage agreement" (listing) is not been entered into by the parties. There are several companies who offer two choices. One: they charge a fee to place your timeshare on their website, and you act as a "for sale by owner" should a buyer ever be interested. So basically, you are paying for advertising; nothing more. The second option is: they offer brokerage services to sell your timeshare, just as if you were selling a house. You sign a listing agreement with the company, and you only pay a commission if and when the sale is completed. Both of these options are totally legal for a company to do. I know of one resale company in the Orlando area who is offering these options. All of their "agents" hold real estate license, and can discuss market values, etc with potential sellers (and buyers). After speaking to a seller, they give them the two options. It is entirely up to a seller as to what they would want to do. My question is, Why would anyone in their right mind pay an upfront fee when you can get the same service by signing the brokerage agreement that says nothing is owed until a ready, willing, able buyer comes forward?

lynns271 wrote:

The FL law states an upfront fee cannot be charged by resale companies when listing a timeshare for sale. The key word is "listing". Many of the companies are well within their rights to charge a fee for advertising a timeshare, as long as a "brokerage agreement" (listing) is not been entered into by the parties. There are several companies who offer two choices. One: they charge a fee to place your timeshare on their website, and you act as a "for sale by owner" should a buyer ever be interested. So basically, you are paying for advertising; nothing more. The second option is: they offer brokerage services to sell your timeshare, just as if you were selling a house. You sign a listing agreement with the company, and you only pay a commission if and when the sale is completed. Both of these options are totally legal for a company to do. I know of one resale company in the Orlando area who is offering these options. All of their "agents" hold real estate license, and can discuss market values, etc with potential sellers (and buyers). After speaking to a seller, they give them the two options. It is entirely up to a seller as to what they would want to do. My question is, Why would anyone in their right mind pay an upfront fee when you can get the same service by signing the brokerage agreement that says nothing is owed until a ready, willing, able buyer comes forward?

davidm1287 wrote:

Interesting, seems like all I hear of are upfront fee outfits and occasionally shady sounding fee recovery outfits. How do I find this company? How successful have they been? Also are there any honest companys that will rent unused (banked) weeks?? DM in AZ

It's against RCI and II rules and regulations to sell/rent banked weeks.