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Manhattan Club Lawsuit
....................and there isn't a response from redweek.com to my comment. " they were on a hiatus for the summer" .......i wasn't aware that they took a hiatus. i expect we'll get more up-to-date info very soon.
chris
susanp816 wrote:I was wondering the same thing? I know they were on a hiatus for the summer but I still thought we would hear something by now.
Chris V.
Leooceanski,
There is no owner lawsuit. There is an investigation being conducted by the NY Attorney General into the fraudulent practices of the Eichner family and their cronies. You would benefit greatly by going back at least a year in this thread and reading what has been going on. Here is the text of a post I made several months ago.
From reading the most recent posts, I sense that there are quite a few newcomers to the various "Manhattan Club" complaint sites. I really got an education when I found the RedWeek site over a year ago, and reviewed all the pages of postings, which now number over 100 plus pages of postings. That's literally thousands of complaints. I've been following the RedWeek site since then, and the majority of owners have the same complaint; for years, despite paying our fees, we have been routinely cheated out of the use of our timeshare while the Eichner family and a small circle of TMC insiders have enriched themselves at our expense. The icing on the cake for me and my wife, and what finally convinced us to stop paying TMC, was when we read the NY Attorney General's July, 2015 court filing, which itemizes a remarkable list of allegations of civil and criminal conduct on the part of The Manhattan Club. This includes the charge that for years, Eichner has been personally skimming 4-6 million dollars a year from TMC through a shell management company that had no employees and provided no services to the operation of the timeshare property. In reading through the filing, I got sick as I learned how badly we have been cheated and how unscrupulous and devious the principals at TMC were as they perpetrated their fraud against us, in our case, for over 10 years. The enormity of the fraud and the magnitude of the numbers is staggering... at least 14,00 owners, 250 rooms, 52 weeks a year ( in some cases they actually sold more than 52 weeks!) at $2500-$4000 annual maintenance payments each.
If you haven't already read this court filing, it is a MUST read for any Manhattan Club owner. Here is the link to that 2015 AG court filing: You may have to paste it into your browser.
https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=arMAhc2Z8epneiTXUbb_PLUS_yQ==&system=prod
By simply withholding two years' maintenance payments, I'm nearly $5,000 ahead. Knowing what we now know, I'm amazed that anyone would voluntarily continue to send these crooks money. Revoke your credit card authorization, stop sending checks, stop funding the people who are screwing all of us.
Bob Biello
Robert B.
............this is helpful to those who need a refresher or who were not aware of the lawsuit, but it is still old news for this forum. we haven't gotten any lawsuit updates from redweek.com's "regulars" in quite some time. i'm hoping for some recent news soon.
chris
robertb1802 wrote:Leooceanski,There is no owner lawsuit. There is an investigation being conducted by the NY Attorney General into the fraudulent practices of the Eichner family and their cronies. You would benefit greatly by going back at least a year in this thread and reading what has been going on. Here is the text of a post I made several months ago.
From reading the most recent posts, I sense that there are quite a few newcomers to the various "Manhattan Club" complaint sites. I really got an education when I found the RedWeek site over a year ago, and reviewed all the pages of postings, which now number over 100 plus pages of postings. That's literally thousands of complaints. I've been following the RedWeek site since then, and the majority of owners have the same complaint; for years, despite paying our fees, we have been routinely cheated out of the use of our timeshare while the Eichner family and a small circle of TMC insiders have enriched themselves at our expense. The icing on the cake for me and my wife, and what finally convinced us to stop paying TMC, was when we read the NY Attorney General's July, 2015 court filing, which itemizes a remarkable list of allegations of civil and criminal conduct on the part of The Manhattan Club. This includes the charge that for years, Eichner has been personally skimming 4-6 million dollars a year from TMC through a shell management company that had no employees and provided no services to the operation of the timeshare property. In reading through the filing, I got sick as I learned how badly we have been cheated and how unscrupulous and devious the principals at TMC were as they perpetrated their fraud against us, in our case, for over 10 years. The enormity of the fraud and the magnitude of the numbers is staggering... at least 14,00 owners, 250 rooms, 52 weeks a year ( in some cases they actually sold more than 52 weeks!) at $2500-$4000 annual maintenance payments each.
If you haven't already read this court filing, it is a MUST read for any Manhattan Club owner. Here is the link to that 2015 AG court filing: You may have to paste it into your browser.
https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=arMAhc2Z8epneiTXUbb_PLUS_yQ==&system=prod
By simply withholding two years' maintenance payments, I'm nearly $5,000 ahead. Knowing what we now know, I'm amazed that anyone would voluntarily continue to send these crooks money. Revoke your credit card authorization, stop sending checks, stop funding the people who are screwing all of us.
Bob Biello
Chris V.
TMC is operating under a court order that bars them from foreclosing on delinquent owners, among many other restrictions. We understand that the club continues to send threatening letters to owners who have not paid maintenance fees, but they have no authority to act against an owner (other than preventing reservations) until the AG's investigation concludes and the court order is modified. The issue of credit is always very personal, but it only becomes relevant if you plan to apply for a mortgage or car loan, or equivalent, in the near future. Many owners have unilaterally decided to stop paying maintenance fees because of their inability to secure reservations.
Jeffrey W.
This whole stream of posts is so sad. I once stayed here several years ago after buying a weekend stay at a charity auction. The location was great and the room generous in size for NY. The elevator was an issue and the place did show some wear since it certainly seemed fully occupied all the time but we enjoyed ourselves. To see behind the scenes and learn that so many people have been fleeced for years with ever increasing maintenance fees has convinced us beyond any doubt that we will never become owners, just renters. It's a shame that such a great idea could become such a burden for so many with no hope of a successful resolution.
Steve W.
Any threatening or disturbing letters should be forwarded directly to the Judge and to the AGs office. This activity on the part of TMC will be held strictly against them. My understanding is that they may not pursue the owners until their status is confirmed. Jim 687
James G.
over the past few weeks there has been a paucity of postings from redweek.com especially concerning THE MANHATTAN CLUB LAWSUIT. what's been happening? i doubt that fewer of us owners are not continuing to share our complaints and concerns here in this redweek.com forum.
why haven't there been more emails and details from redweek.com?
a response related directly to this message in this forum would be appreciated.
chris
Chris V.
Last edited by chrisv126 on Oct 09, 2016 08:31 AM
duly noted and ignored.
kevin631 wrote:chrisv126 wrote:over the past few weeks there has been a paucity of postings from redweek.com especially concerning THE MANHATTAN CLUB LAWSUIT. what's been happening? i doubt that fewer of us owners are not continuing to share our complaints and concerns here in this redweek.com forum.why haven't there been more emails and details from redweek.com?
a response related directly to this message in this forum would be appreciated.
chris
Wow. How many updates do you expect to hear? Redweek responded to your comments plus there has been numerous updates posted on the site. Also if you go to YouTube you can listen to "Time Sharing Today- around the industry" podcast that has the various attorneys involved discussing the case and giving timely updates. Since this is a legal matter certain information will not be forthcoming in a public forum until the case is settled which unfortunately is going to take quite some time.To be constantly complaining that you do not have information is puzzling.
Chris V.
We are at a decision making crossroad, and so.....
What are the opinions on what can happen down the road if we do not pay maintenance fee AND stop monthly loan payments?
I understand about writing to NYAG and to credit bureaus, BUT...
What is the speculation on repercussions for non-payment? (Bob Biello had a very interested statement a while back indicating that owners would be left out in the cold regardless of the outcome of the investigation, and so had decided to cut his losses.)
Thoughts? Thank you...
Paul D.
pauld220 wrote:We are at a decision making crossroad, and so.....What are the opinions on what can happen down the road if we do not pay maintenance fee AND stop monthly loan payments?
I understand about writing to NYAG and to credit bureaus, BUT...
What is the speculation on repercussions for non-payment? (Bob Biello had a very interested statement a while back indicating that owners would be left out in the cold regardless of the outcome of the investigation, and so had decided to cut his losses.) Thoughts? Thank you...
We have not paid maintenance for the last two years (two weeks at penthouse). We got several letters asking for payment in July and nothing since. As far as we can tell no effect on credit. Our position is that we are not being served. We do not want to put any more money into the MC. We cannot presently sell or give back to MC because of AG action. Our view of the AG case is that it was moving as best as could be expected in view of the Judge's ruling several months ago. However, we recognize that the AG is not taking action for us personally but the wording of the past AG arguments to the judge uses all the right terms regarding the owners e.g. preservation of funds for a possible settlement etc. It is possible that there could be a legal resolution and we would have to pay up on the arrears. On the other hand we might not have to so therefore we stopped paying.
I would strongly suggest to the uninitiated to go back and read the blog page by page. You should also read the AG/MC lawyer/judge statements on the court web site. They are quite revealing. All the links for these sites are in blog notices. My current concern is that the AG attorney who has been on the case for the last 2 years has left and since then nothing has happened. I assume a replacement has been assigned and is getting up to speed (no info on this however).
Gerald C.
ChrisV: Redweek is hosting this group, has chased the TMC issues for several years, has facilitated the meeting and subsidized the videos it created with others. I'm grateful for their continuing support. I trust that Jeff Weir and other contributors will report happenings when something worth of reporting happens. Being snippy to others who are all in the same situation of the rest of us owners isn't useful or desirable. Don't wear out your welcome.
Dennis C.
Thank you for your thoughts, Gerald. I have saved some of the court documents to read through, and listened to the Time Sharing Today podcast on their YouTube channel. As it relates to my inquiry, the attorney on the podcast said that owners must decide what to do based on their "individual tolerance for risk". In other words, roll the dice and hope for the best! He also explained that the current appeals made by Eichner, et.al., and subsequent reviews, will take at least 9 months to a year, or longer. (Note: the podcast is from July 2016).
Anyway, we are still weighing our options before paying the maintenance fee and taxes for this year. Like so many others, we hate to give up on our "investment" and take such a loss, but at the same time are reluctant to pour money into what could be a disastrous loss in the end. ""
geraldc102 wrote:pauld220 wrote:We are at a decision making crossroad, and so.....What are the opinions on what can happen down the road if we do not pay maintenance fee AND stop monthly loan payments?
I understand about writing to NYAG and to credit bureaus, BUT...
What is the speculation on repercussions for non-payment? (Bob Biello had a very interested statement a while back indicating that owners would be left out in the cold regardless of the outcome of the investigation, and so had decided to cut his losses.) Thoughts? Thank you...
We have not paid maintenance for the last two years (two weeks at penthouse). We got several letters asking for payment in July and nothing since. As far as we can tell no effect on credit. Our position is that we are not being served. We do not want to put any more money into the MC. We cannot presently sell or give back to MC because of AG action. Our view of the AG case is that it was moving as best as could be expected in view of the Judge's ruling several months ago. However, we recognize that the AG is not taking action for us personally but the wording of the past AG arguments to the judge uses all the right terms regarding the owners e.g. preservation of funds for a possible settlement etc. It is possible that there could be a legal resolution and we would have to pay up on the arrears. On the other hand we might not have to so therefore we stopped paying.
I would strongly suggest to the uninitiated to go back and read the blog page by page. You should also read the AG/MC lawyer/judge statements on the court web site. They are quite revealing. All the links for these sites are in blog notices. My current concern is that the AG attorney who has been on the case for the last 2 years has left and since then nothing has happened. I assume a replacement has been assigned and is getting up to speed (no info on this however).
Paul D.
