Manhattan Club Lawsuit

I'm in class action suit with 4500 other homeowners due to faulty construction of our homes. The attornies have been on the case for 12 yrs with a cost to them of $500,00+. We are near the end as they went to final court hearing yesterday and there will be one of two outcomes...jury trial or settlement. The reason I tell you this is very similar circumstances...fraud and deceit. TMC has about 18000 owners and with the recent AG case being settled and fraud found on part of Eichner, I think an attorney firm would take on this case. Most of the work has been done in this case as far as researching the fraud and misappropriation of maintenance fees. So perhaps we can get a class action case started.

Class action talk is wishful thinking. Elaine, construction defect litigation is not class action. You are a named plaintiff. Educate yourself. Attorneys sue developers at their own expense and recover in settlement or trial, plus their fees. You get knowledge of your defects and maybe a down payment to fix something. TMC is not comparable in anyway except the owners are known - recorded with municipalities - and therefore not class actionable. You'd have to sue TMC at your upfront costs plus attorneys fees. And no, the AG is not going to share it's 3-year investigation with your lawyers.

While I agree that a class action lawsuit is a non-starter for many reasons, I think that with the number of TMC owners involved, the costs to an individual owner who elected to join a group to fund a lawsuit seeking specific relief, such as gaining control of the HOA Board, could be pretty reasonable.

I am not a lawyer, and I know discovery and depositions can get pretty expensive pretty fast, but if 5,000 owners (roughly 25%) put up $100, we would have $500,000, and I am guessing that would fund a lot.

jills465 wrote:

Class action talk is wishful thinking. Elaine, construction defect litigation is not class action. You are a named plaintiff. Educate yourself. Attorneys sue developers at their own expense and recover in settlement or trial, plus their fees. You get knowledge of your defects and maybe a down payment to fix something. TMC is not comparable in anyway except the owners are known - recorded with municipalities - and therefore not class actionable. You'd have to sue TMC at your upfront costs plus attorneys fees. And no, the AG is not going to share it's 3-year investigation with your lawyers.

Hi Jill, It sounds like you have quite a background in law. I wonder why the AG wouldn't share its findings of the investigation and isn't all or most of that public record? Other suits have been brought in the past and thrown out, but wouldn't the fact that the AG established fraud/bait and switch that involved 14,000 owners be class actionable?...I just don't know, but surprised to hear from you that it is not. Well, the beat goes on!

deborahs528 wrote:

jills465 wrote:

Class action talk is wishful thinking. Elaine, construction defect litigation is not class action. You are a named plaintiff. Educate yourself. Attorneys sue developers at their own expense and recover in settlement or trial, plus their fees. You get knowledge of your defects and maybe a down payment to fix something. TMC is not comparable in anyway except the owners are known - recorded with municipalities - and therefore not class actionable. You'd have to sue TMC at your upfront costs plus attorneys fees. And no, the AG is not going to share it's 3-year investigation with your lawyers.

Hi Jill, It sounds like you have quite a background in law. I wonder why the AG wouldn't share its findings of the investigation and isn't all or most of that public record? Other suits have been brought in the past and thrown out, but wouldn't the fact that the AG established fraud/bait and switch that involved 14,000 owners be class actionable?...I just don't know, but surprised to hear from you that it is not. Well, the beat goes on!

I decided to look up class action suit in Wikipedia...this is what it says, so unless I don't understand what I am reading which is entirely possible, it sounds like we owners could bring a class action suit.

Per Wikipedia: Description In a typical class action, a plaintiff sues a defendant or a number of defendants on behalf of a group, or class, of absent parties.[1] This differs from a traditional lawsuit, where one party sues another party for redress of a wrong, and all of the parties are present in court. Although standards differ between states and countries, class actions are most common where the allegations involve a large number of people (usually 40 or more) who have been injured by the same defendant in the same way.[1] Instead of each damaged person bringing his or her own lawsuit, the class action allows all the claims of all class members—whether they know they have been damaged or not—to be resolved in a single proceeding through the efforts of the representative plaintiff(s) and appointed class counsel.[1

craigr32 wrote:

While I agree that a class action lawsuit is a non-starter for many reasons, I think that with the number of TMC owners involved, the costs to an individual owner who elected to join a group to fund a lawsuit seeking specific relief, such as gaining control of the HOA Board, could be pretty reasonable.

I am not a lawyer, and I know discovery and depositions can get pretty expensive pretty fast, but if 5,000 owners (roughly 25%) put up $100, we would have $500,000, and I am guessing that would fund a lot.

hey craig, tell me where to send my $100 check (or is a credit card ok?).

keep in touch.

chris

ps: if this is a viable action (really) count me in.

on the other hand, not one of us owners has the has even slightest clue as to what the court will do, if anything, to recompense owners for financial losses, eg purchase price (of often unavailable reservation time) and ridiculously exorbitant raises of our maintenance fees. will we need a class action suit? will we be able to raise the (probably higher) $500,000 attorneys fees? will the court act in our behalf without a class action suit? who will take over TMC, and will it continue to be a timeshare? what will the actions of the new principals be concerning us individual owners be: buy us out (at current nyc market prices); permit us to keep our week(s) with much more reasonable maintenance fees? ..................no more questions. i rest my case. hopefully our reliable redweek reporter, jeff weir, will uncover insightful, reliable and hopefully encouraging news about how the court will react and/or how owners should proceed in order to recoup our collective financial and use losses.

Deborah and others - I'm not a lawyer but have worked in litigation as a paralegal for 35-plus years. The requirement in Wikipedia that "we all must be injured in the same way" disqualifies TMC owners from being in a class suit (in my opinion, of course). Of the 15,000 - +/- owners, not all were victims of (alleged) criminal practices. Also, the case settled b4 a court judgment, so the fact that TMC was investigated for fraudulent activities is not proof they were guilty of any wrong doing. That's why cases settle. CD litigation looks like class action but only named plaintiffs get relief from the developer's defective housing construction. Others in the neighborhood who have the same leaky roofs or cracked foundations are out of luck if they are "absent" from being named in the complaint. With TMC, the civil charges are more breach of contract claims. (Private citizens can't file criminal charges- only municipalities can.). There were differing kinds of sales contracts; different sales practices used against different people. Finally, class actions usually involves thousands (not just "more than 40") of people who are unknown to the court until the handful of named plaintiffs can get certified by the court as representative of unknown victims.

jills465 wrote:

Deborah and others - I'm not a lawyer but have worked in litigation as a paralegal for 35-plus years. The requirement in Wikipedia that "we all must be injured in the same way" disqualifies TMC owners from being in a class suit (in my opinion, of course). Of the 15,000 - +/- owners, not all were victims of (alleged) criminal practices. Also, the case settled b4 a court judgment, so the fact that TMC was investigated for fraudulent activities is not proof they were guilty of any wrong doing. That's why cases settle. CD litigation looks like class action but only named plaintiffs get relief from the developer's defective housing construction. Others in the neighborhood who have the same leaky roofs or cracked foundations are out of luck if they are "absent" from being named in the complaint. With TMC, the civil charges are more breach of contract claims. (Private citizens can't file criminal charges- only municipalities can.). There were differing kinds of sales contracts; different sales practices used against different people. Finally, class actions usually involves thousands (not just "more than 40") of people who are unknown to the court until the handful of named plaintiffs can get certified by the court as representative of unknown victims.

Jill, thank you for the feedback. Sounds like you know a lot more than I do about law.

As I shared in an earlier forum comment...we are once again in a wait and see what happens position with the settlement, not having any indication how the next level of the situation will unfold. I was curious as to whether the possibility of a class action suit exists, but first, I like many others want to see how this settlement plays out.

Seems like many others who participate in the forum, feel that the class action is a very real possibility and it sounds like it's not. I am trying to educate myself on such matters. So again, thank you for the feedback.

jill, i respect your opinion as i do most other contributors to this forum. however your statement that "not all were victims of (alleged) criminal practices" i totally disagree with that opinion, even the word ALLEGED...these criminal practices were actually proven and no longer ALLEGED. although there may be circumstances among owners that differ, we were ALL VICTIMS OF LIES AND FRAUD THE MOMENT WE WALKED INTO THE SALES SCENARIO THAT BEGAN IN THE INFAMOUS 2ND FLOOR SALES OFFICE. all of us were financial victims of the fraudulent sales presentation and the 400% +/- raise in our maintenance fees over the ownership timeframe. these are the criminal activities that ALL OWNERS WERE SUBJECTED TO, and in my opinion, the court should act in our behalf to assist us to recover our financial losses including the reservation time that was paid for and often never available to many owners. these criminal activities were clearly proven via the nysag's actual taping/filming at the sales presentation..............this in itself helped mr schneiderman to win his case against TMC.

keep in touch.

enjoy labor day!

chris

jills465 wrote:

Deborah and others - I'm not a lawyer but have worked in litigation as a paralegal for 35-plus years. The requirement in Wikipedia that "we all must be injured in the same way" disqualifies TMC owners from being in a class suit (in my opinion, of course). Of the 15,000 - +/- owners, not all were victims of (alleged) criminal practices. Also, the case settled b4 a court judgment, so the fact that TMC was investigated for fraudulent activities is not proof they were guilty of any wrong doing. That's why cases settle. CD litigation looks like class action but only named plaintiffs get relief from the developer's defective housing construction. Others in the neighborhood who have the same leaky roofs or cracked foundations are out of luck if they are "absent" from being named in the complaint. With TMC, the civil charges are more breach of contract claims. (Private citizens can't file criminal charges- only municipalities can.). There were differing kinds of sales contracts; different sales practices used against different people. Finally, class actions usually involves thousands (not just "more than 40") of people who are unknown to the court until the handful of named plaintiffs can get certified by the court as representative of unknown victims.

If this class action moves forward I would like to be part of it. Patricia Heidle 33 Fern Crest Drive Debary, Fl. 32713

I have owned since 1996, maintenance fees were $595., now $3000.00 I cannot afford it any longer. I own an every other year deed.

We agree with Chris, with the exception of one year we were able to get our 7 days but not as promised. We had to make our reservations a year in advance and fortunately we were locked into 3 days in our contract so they had no choice but to let us have those. The other 4 were suppose to be at our discretion, which they were not. The yearly fees escalated 400% so though we did go most years we feel fraud was still committed. We are anxiously awaiting outcome. Hopefully it won't take 4 more years!

The AG's office issued a press release announcing the settlement of its investigation into the Manhattan Club, but provided no guidance on how or what owners should do to request restitution. The NYAG also said that a claims administrator would handle refund requests from owners. Since then, the AG's office has NOT responded to RedWeek's request for a copy of the settlement nor has it posted any additional information in the court file. Bottom line, there is no clear path, at this time, on the next steps for owners. Private attorneys who work with TMC owners recommend that owners contact the AG's office for more information about how to file claims, and with whom, to determine their eligibility to participate in the $6.5 million settlement program .

Thank you, Jeff! Presumably, when the settlement is made public, it will be made public to all interested parties. If you could publish the NYAG phone or email yet again, that would certainly be appreciated. Thank you again for taking on this thankless task. No matter what the outcome, there will be those left unsatisfied; but the vast majority will be grateful to have the cloud of uncertainty removed and reasonable management installed. Thank you again.

Hi Jeff, would you have a contact name of someone within the AG's office or would it best to address it to Claims Administrator?? thank you for this information. It feels better to be doing something about it, rather than waiting around to see what happens. God knows we have all done enough of that.

Hi Alex my name is Nicholas Ragone. I have been alone for many many years. I would like to be included in the class-action. My best email address is nvr735i@optonline.net . Thanks!

My husband (Reginald Amory) and I (Marion Amory have been owners at the Manhattan Club since 2001. At that time, we purchased a Studio Bedroom Suite. Upon purchase, were told that we could sell it back to the Manhattan Club. Only to discover that this was not true and that we were expected to continue paying our ever our escalating Maintenance Fees. We tried several times to sell the unit back to them but were told each time, that we could not. So, we have continued paying our annual fee that has now amounted to $3,500.00, never missing a payment and we are soon to retire. We are native New Yorkers, but thought purchasing the unit (2001) was a good idea at the time; since we moved out of New York state the same year that we purchased the unit (2001) because we wanted to maintain our contact with the city of Manhattan.

Please add my husband (Reginald Amory) and me (Marion Amory) to the Class Action Suit. As I stated earlier we purchased our unit in 2001.

Thank you and I hope to hear from you soon.

Contact information:

Louis Solomon, Chief of Enforcement New York State Office of the Attorney General Real Estate Finance Bureau 120 Broadway, 23rd Floor New York, New York 10271

(212) 416-8122

Does anyone know the best way of unloading my MC unit? I've been paying maintenance fees on it for over 10 years and have used it very little. I could easily get a very nice room in the city for what I pay in fees to MC. I'm not even looking for any compensation at this point.

Your email doesn't work can you email me alexcrystal22@gmail.com