Manhattan Club Lawsuit

Yes, by contract, you have to pay your fees or the rest of us who continue to pay ours have to make up the difference, adding insult to whatever other inconveniences/injuries we may have incurred through ownership at the Manhattan Club.

Interesting. I am sitting in Judge Melissa Crane's room. She has not appeared yet. Nothing about the Manhattan Club "anything" is scheduled. I inquired. Clerk found nothing, said the case is settled, closed.

that's terrible, now what, we all need to sign that petition once its done, This is not looking good at all

I'm not paying starting this year. As for burdening others, I'm not using it and they can make their own decisions.

beth222, tulipblossom, andreasw7, etc. I too was told TMC would be 100% timeshares. No rentals, unless owners sublet their time or were unable to use their time. " They'd be opening a re-sale department and re-sale could be done through their sales dept. with no problem". They even told me just to expect subtracting 8% as the salesman's commission. Although the fees have gone 400% crazy, I'm more concerned with Not loosing the entire investment/cost & Not leaving my children property that will bankrupt them for ever!

So, if Beth or any of you want to start a different list. One which believes we can address SPECIFICALLY THE PROMISED RESALE QUESTION, (Instead of a million different problems, which I believe is self defeating), let me know.

THE REAL PROBLEM IS: RESTORED MARKET VALUE MUST BE THE MAIN GOAL, (minus agents commission of course). ALSO PART OF THIS, IS TO HAVE AN OWNER CONTROLLED BOARD. These are the ONLY 2 goals of any subsidence. Everything else simply distracts from fixing the problems! SO, ANY NEW IDEAS??????

It is simply NOT TRUE that owners who continue to pay subsidize those who have stopped making their annual payment. Some years ago I stopped paying the annual fee with the written proviso that my days be resold by the association. Their published rates charged for sales to the public would have exceeded my annual fee. Here is the fraud - owners who paid their annual fees failed to get reservations because the space was being sold to non-owners. A great "double dip" scheme by management.

Once the the character of the Manhattan Club fraud was quantified in the NY AG's investigation, many owner contractual responsibilities were voided.

Owners who think they will gain substantive reimbursement in the near future for their "investment" are delusional. We were bamboozled in grand fashion. The prospectus that we received after the signing in 2000 explicitly stated that this investment involves a high level of risk.

This was the most accurate statement in the whole document.

Sorry about that. Hope you live around there. I will see if I can find any more about this. Perhaps the conference was in Judge's chambers and it was not docketed. Tim

Really? Then from where do the funds come that are very real requirements for operating and staffing a building the size of the Manhattan Club in central New York City. If you pay less, I pay more.

Nice!! You made a bad decision. Because of it you decided to be a deadbeat and I should pay more because of it.

bruceg213 wrote:

I'm not paying starting this year. As for burdening others, I'm not using it and they can make their own decisions.

ˆ'm no deadbeat. This is the only bill I've ever failed to pay. As far as I'm concerned a fraudulent contract is void. If you keep paying you're a fool.

williamm465 wrote:

Nice!! You made a bad decision. Because of it you decided to be a deadbeat and I should pay more because of it.

bruceg213 wrote:

I'm not paying starting this year. As for burdening others, I'm not using it and they can make their own decisions.

I understand your reasoning but if owners don't pay their annual dues, how do you think the real estate taxes, insurance, housekeeping, utilities, repairs, etc. get paid? The developer wasn't paying the shortfall. Our reserves had to be used and to pay the shortfall after the reserves were depleted, dues had to be increased. And my understanding was that the association ( us owners) did not receive the money for the rentals that were secured - that money supposedly went to the developer. I had been led to believe that It did not go into the Association's account. Plus, the developer was charging a management fee of $6,000,000 a year and did nothing and had no employees- his fees certainly came out of the dues we paid. So, if I'm incorrect on all of this, can someone advise. Chris, you have a good understanding of the flimflam - what are your thoughts?

My husband and I stopped paying annual fees to TMC in 2014 because we felt lied to and cheated by the sales staff and were very pleased when the NYAG in 2014 made TMC unable to damage our credit while NYAG were doing their investigation. We were also pleased when the NYAG made the Eichners and those other TMC liars admit their criminal activities during the time we bought our timeshare in 2011. I am not pleased that there's practically no restitution to those of us who were duped by their lies nor an exit plan for us. We feel that our contract should be null and void since it was sold to us with lies blatantly in violation of the Martin Act, where there were sham companies taking side money, companies renting out our units so owners couldn't book, and all were hiding behind the corporate veil. It all stinks and I want out, but apparently the NYAG didn't really do anything to help us. The Eichners get to sell their ownership at probably a high market value and then those new owners get all the Eichner's rights to manage the HOA, the building, the employees and sales staff. I don't think anything will change and I don't know how to get out. I keep getting invoices from TMC with exorbitant interest charges. We don't have the money to start a legal fight. We are hoping that there's a lawyer who will take all of us dissatisfied owners and start a class action lawsuit because at least now the NYAG has Eichners et al admitting their violations.

Just to be clear to everyone, your annual fees are what they are. If people don't pay, they can't come after you for more at the end of the year. And as to who pays for the expense of keeping it? The fees were so overpriced and astronomical that no one is hurting in spite of a handful that don't pay.

So - since we don't know whether the settlement is final and not subject to review by the Judge, is there any reason to continue writing to her? Seems like the matter is settled.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but not their own facts. Unless an owner has sold their contract, they are still liable for whatever obligations they assumed, like paying maintenance fees. If they pay late, the MC can impose late fees or interest. I'm sure that's in our agreement. If you choose not to pay your fees, the MC can foreclose on your unit. and probably sue you for the difference between the amount they get for it at auction and the amount you are in arrears. That's how foreclosure works. If they cancel your debt, they can issue an IRS Form 1099-C, which will create a tax liability for you with the IRS. Try telling the IRS, "in my opinion, the agreement was null and void." We are all waiting for an administrator to pay any amounts due under the settlement negotiated by the NYAG. That will take two years for three payments. ! And we are waiting for a new management company to take over the day-to-day at the MC. After looking at this blog, I don't know who would want to take on this mess. But until that happens, all this posting is just opinion and wishful thinking.

Who says only a handful are not paying? How do we know that a substantial portion or even all of the recent large increases in annual fees is not due to an increasing fraction of owners who refuse to pay their share?

sunildajs wrote:

Just to be clear to everyone, your annual fees are what they are. If people don't pay, they can't come after you for more at the end of the year. And as to who pays for the expense of keeping it? The fees were so overpriced and astronomical that no one is hurting in spite of a handful that don't pay.

ws57 wrote:

Who says only a handful are not paying? How do we know that a substantial portion or even all of the recent large increases in annual fees is not due to an increasing fraction of owners who refuse to pay their share?

sunildajs wrote:

Just to be clear to everyone, your annual fees are what they are. If people don't pay, they can't come after you for more at the end of the year. And as to who pays for the expense of keeping it? The fees were so overpriced and astronomical that no one is hurting in spite of a handful that don't pay.

ws57 It's clear you cannot or did not read the financial statements you were sent by the Manhattan Club. Actually, a reserve for bad debts is a listed expense and has increased somewhat year to year, but, while it has increased maint. fees a bit, it is hardly the main cause of the increase.

Judging by the numbers here that are still paying. Besides, has anyone asked you for more $?

Elect a "Shadow Board" to represent Owners.

Responding to lc121 comment of Nov 16: THE REAL PROBLEM IS: RESTORED MARKET VALUE MUST BE THE MAIN GOAL, (minus agents commission of course). ALSO PART OF THIS, IS TO HAVE AN OWNER CONTROLLED BOARD. These are the ONLY 2 goals of any subsidence. Everything else simply distracts from fixing the problems! SO, ANY NEW IDEAS??????