Marriott Going to Point Syst

" We are interested in purchasing another Marriott week and all they are 'selling' is 'points'"

Ellen, the good news is that you can still buy resale weeks which really is the best way to go anyway. Right here on this site you should be able to pick up a deeded week for as much as half what the developer would have sold it for when they were selling weeks.

I don't see very many positive posts here on this new system. With so much displeasure would it be worth our time to send a letter to MVC with all our signatures? What requests would we make? Thoughts?

Trust Ownership seems easy to abuse. When the trust includes minor ownership in desirable locations and major ownership in deeds of less desirable locations, who or what can demand records and even be sure that the trust administrator(s) are operating legally?

My spouse and I were motivated to attend a meeting on converting to Destination Points (DP) from the “Legacy” system (LS) after reading the comment thread on Red Week. Our family arrived at the KoOlina Beach Club and were told to get our “Welcome Packet”, which was a hook to signing us up for the meeting on DP. (Note: If you are outside or in one of the buildings, you will likely get approached by one of the Marriott carney’s. I use this term deliberately because it felt like we were at a county Fair being enticed to play a shell game.) The person who gave us our Welcome Packet signed us up, highlighting that we’d receive a $75 gift if we went, and later (lucky us) we received 3 reminder calls about the meeting!

Since only one of us was able to attend the meeting, I was “uninvited” to the sales presentation and “tour.” (The tour was news to me.) Instead, a salesman met with me 1:1. He had no marketing materials or business cards. His first question was “what can I do for you?” I said I was told it was important that I listen to the meeting on DP conversion. He sketched the differences between the programs on the back of a piece of paper…no printed material, hmm? I have no materials other than what he wrote and will give you those details so you can consider the alternatives, but please, do your own research!

Here’s the spiel I got. Under the new DP, Owners won’t be “nickel and dimed” by Interval Int’l’s fees. Instead, you pay Marriott a one-time $695 enrollment fee plus $199/year to have all your “vacation needs” taken care of by Marriott. Paying the enrollment fee nets you 800 points. Second, depending on where you own, you are assigned points—more points for high demand properties like Maui and KoOlina while others get fewer. He was unable or unwilling to share with me how the points were determined. KoOlina, has 4,950 points assigned for 1 week. Maui is higher (he didn’t say how much). If you have more than 6,000 points/year you are a “Premier Owner” and can book at SF, Vail, Aspen, St Thomas and St. Abaco (sp?) in the Bahamas. If you need to bank a week, you have 24 mos. vs. 12 at Interval Int’l. (please check facts on Interval’s banking timeline—my husband doesn’t think it’s just 12 months!)

When it comes to inventory selection, owners do not get precedence over anyone or anything. We are treated just like any other squirrel trying to get a nut. The salesman didn’t go into much of the “flexibility” arrangements like checking-in on mid-week. However, if you are someone who mostly uses your home property, checks in on Saturday and out on the following Saturday, and likes to use Marriott Reward points for hotels and travel packages, I personally don’t see an incentive to change. In fact, it’s more costly because you can get a 5-year membership at Interval and bank several weeks and not even come close to the $895 Marriott wants in the first year!! Honestly, I can’t see why anyone would convert, except that the administration seems easier under the new program and (as the salesman told me), people in the DP program like to use the “Explorer Collection” which takes them to more exotic places. However, from personal experience we had no trouble going to an “exotic” location using Interval Int’l under LS.

One thing that concerns me, and only time will tell, is the salesman’s metaphor that described the LS as buying an individual stock and the DP program is like buying into a “Trust” or “Mutual Fund”. Being an investor, I avoid mutual funds at because the “advisors” pay themselves first, regardless of any gain in the fund and they charge an an obscene 6%+ fee regardless. So, while the salesman told me that the MVP spin-off would be the best overall, I have a hard time believing these people. They make a ton of money off of selling “the vacation dream” and very likely work on commission. Another concern is that the salesman told me if we don’t convert to DP soon, we won’t get as many points and the fees will increase. Maybe this was the typical used-car sales tactic, “hurry and buy while sale lasts!”, but I feel in full disclosure I need to write this to our Owner community. Oh, BTW, KoOlina weeks are going for $60,000/per week and annual maintenance fees are $2,400. Interesting how there is no resale market for them, isn’t it…I know, I tried.

To add insult to injury, they weren’t going to give me my $75 gift. I fought a good fight and got $38 for my time and saved $895 by NOT enrolling. Good luck, everyone!

If you deposit your week with II, you get two years from the date that is assigned from your home resort. If the sales rep can't even get that right, one has to wonder what other misinformation is being provided. There is nothing simple about this program. The obfuscation is mind boggling. I did join the initial roll out but have not - and will not - purchase additional points. Nowhere do I see how that is any kind of advantage.

Remember when Coke brought out New Coke and then went back to the original due to public opinion. Netfix recently announced that they would not handled DVD in the same company as the streeming and based on public opinion they dropped this plan. Marriott announced the new points program -- which as an add on program is great. But the change from selling deeded weeks has been rejected by knowedable current owners. Yet Marriott continues to try and sell a poor product to an unknowledgable market segment. Why they do not go back to selling deeded weeks, with an additional charge for the points add on, is beyond comperhension. This way everyone would be particiapating in the same points program instead of have two different points inventory and owners having little confidence on how they are being administered. So Marriott don't elminate the points program -- just go back to selling deeded weeks with the points an optional plan. But do it soon!!!

I don't think selling deeded weeks again will solve the dual inventory problem since points allow for less than full week stays and would have to be separate from those owners who would like to stay or exchange for an entire week.

I think Marriott believed in part that more deeded/legacy owners would switch into DP based on flexibility and the idea that any 'new' properties would only be available in the DP program trust. Well they rolled this out in the worst real estate development environment in the last 70 years--there are no new properties on the horizon.

As j227 suggests they might have done better with offering the DP to deeded/legacy owners for a fee based option, raising some capital and offering prospective buyers the DP option for free as part of an enticement package to sell unsold weeks. Everyone would still have a deeded week and you could use or purchase the DP option if it met your needs. Instead they got greedy and thought their marketing spin and reputation would be enough to make DP a success.

The people who bought DP (not deeded owners who switched) under the guise that they were buying into a vast inventory of properties and weeks are the real unfortunate ones. What they bought was unsold inventory, the vast majority of available weeks in the DP program currently, at a cost that is much higher than the inventory could be sold as a deeded week. Instead of moving unsold weeks the old fashion way, by price cutting and adding other value, Marriott choose to gin-up this deceptive system. Unfortunately, they designed and sold the DP program as a Trust arrangement to some people and I don't see how they could eat crow at this point and unwind the mess they made.

I think many of us may over analyze this program. The real tests, I believe, are (1) whether we can we get the vacation weeks/days we want; and, (2) whether we are able to do this at a reasonable cost for these "high end" properties. Cost, of course, is either destination points, trades thru Interval, or use of an owned week. I may be missing something but I suspect these are the issues.

Out of fairness to Marriott, we have been successful in getting the vacation days/weeks we wanted at some great properties. This has, however, required that we learn how to use the entire program and plan way ahead. And, yes, we're heavily invested in weeks, enrolled in Destinations, bought Destination Points, etc.

I really don't think the Destinations program has hurt our existing participations; and, in fact, has added some options.

Yes, the DP program is a nice option for legacy owners. However, the DP program for new owners is off the scale expensive (both initally and mtce fees).

However, it is a very complecated program.

Example. If you have lots of points you can make a reservation using them at the 13 month point. However, at the 13 month point it is hard to make a reservation since existing owners have not deposited their weeks into the points program that far in advance and the points for new point owners is a sperate inventory pot. If the week is not available you can't be put on the waiting list until the 12 month point. Thus at the 13 month point you can only make a reservation if the time is availabie, and then you have to call back at the 12 month point to get on the waiting list. This is nonsensical -- but that is exactly the way it works.

The concept of having to have two buckets of point inventory -- one for legacy owners and another for point owners -- was all caused by not continuing to sell deeded weeks and offering the point program as an option. (like for legacy owners.)

I agree Marriott is not likely to change the program at this point. But I wanted to give examples of companys that made a mistake and corrected it. Marriott is not one of those companies.

A good deal right now - Rather than be discouraged by the high cost and reservation difficulties, why not consider buying the weeks you want thru Redweek. It is surely the most economical approach but it does have some limitations - no trading for MRP's or VCP's, no partial weeks, and no access to new Trust properties. It does, however, give you most of what you want and is absolutely the best alternative if you buy a "Platinum" week at a property that you want to use.

An example - we really like Newport Villas (California) so we bought two additional "Platinum" weeks for $8,000 each this summer thru Redweek listings. Inasmuch as we like the property, we don't care about MRP's and VCP's. If we decide we want to go somewhere else, we can still use Interval to trade or we can easily rent the week for $2,000+ (and rent something thru Redweek). Newport Villas are also very desirable and trade well as high value properties. Incidentally, the maintenance fees are $877 and the property taxes are about $200 more - the unit would even pay for itself over a short period. Buy three, and you get the 13 month reservation advantage - which is big at your home resort.

Just so you know, we also own several weeks acquired thru Marriott. We also have bought Destination points. Were I starting from here, our earlier decisions would be different.

Please, please listen to your gut on this...We bought into the points system with Sunterra (now Diamond REsorts International). Read the STatement of Information required by law before you do anything. It probably will give them the right to change the point system as they desire, and then you will be where we all are -- see the forum on Diamond Resorts. DON"T GO POINT SYSTEM!

Do some homework. I think that I read in a thread somewhere that Marriott is getting out of the timeshare business. The note (from an owner, not Marriott) alluded to Marriott passing operations to another company. This smells like danger...

davidl712 wrote:

Do some homework. I think that I read in a thread somewhere that Marriott is getting out of the timeshare business. The note (from an owner, not Marriott) alluded to Marriott passing operations to another company. This smells like danger...

Marriott is not necessarily getting out of the timeshare business.

Recognizing there are distinct differences in management processes for hotel management and timeshare development/ management, Marriott has chosen to spin off the timeshare division. This allows both divisions to "stand on its own" - and prevents any one division from being a drag on the others stock value when extended economic conditions materially impact operations such as the timeshare industry has experienced over the last three or four years years. The executive team that runs Marriott Vacation Club will stay in tact in the spinoff and the majority of stock will be held by Marriott.

I doubt that participation in a timeshare point system versus owning a specific timeshare week is the real issue. The more likely issue is the Company that sells and administers the point system or timeshare? Some firms have ventured into the timeshare business unprepared or unwilling to provide the services they sold. A prudent timeshare participant would do some research and avoid these firms and deals.

The move would make it easier for Marriott to sell off its timeshare/destinations business. Only time will tell.

One of the good parts of the DP is the fact that you can fly mid week when airfare is cheaper. I enrolled my weeks and they gave me pretty good value for Aruba and Las Vegas, but a really low level for my New Jersey week. However, NJ gets the highest Marriott Rewards Points, which I use for big trips to Australia, etc. So, I think there are pros and cons to it. You do get preference at your home location if you enroll your week. I do know that.

One of the biggest gripes I have is that they have not gotten their web site up so you can check inventory and pick your weeks on the web. You have to call them everytime just to check if a location is available, let alone locking in your week. That is frustrating, and even the people that answer the phone say it has been frustrating for them because customers like to sign themselves up and not have to call every time...

Overall, I've been pretty pleased...but I've only used it for one season!

I hope Marriott doesn't sell out to Diamond Resorts. Then you will really get a taste of timeshare pain. I hate to hear all the bad stories about Diamond Resorts and their programs. In my humble opinion, they are converting the deeded owners into the points system and putting their deed into the trust where they control the votes. It gets ugly and its only going to get uglier. Expect those MF's to go up until you are priced out. Think about it, you pay the big bucks and they use some of that money to make the resort nicer and then when you can afford the MF's anymore, they sell it to the next person. The Hawaii resort owners are going crazy right now with all the assessments that they just found out about. $65 million dollar repair bill to be spread amongst the deeded owners and the Hawaiian Collection owners..... www.poipuowners.org and look up Point at Poipu Angry Owners on FaceBook

Hello Kpaul,

I own both Diamond Resorts and Marriott. They are like apples and oranges in some ways. Although Diamond has some resorts that are very nice, none of them compare to the Marriott properties. I own Ko Olina and have used points to stay at the Ka'anapali Beach Club in Maui. There is no comparison to Ko Olina even though the Ka'anapali Beach Club is really, really nice.

Marriott must have been looking at Diamond's point system very closely when they decided to go to points because there are many similarities. One thing about Diamond is that I can get a lot more weeks for my points. I know a lot of people complain about Diamond. I do because the MF's just seemed to keep rising. However, they have calmed down. I also notice that Diamond has been renovating and refurbishing its properties too. That does cost money. The situation at Poipu is frightening because they are talking about a lot of money for a special assessment. I don't know what I would do if someone asked me for another $5000+ on top of my regular maintenance fees. It doesn't seem to make sense and that they could have given a longer timeframe.

But make no mistake, there are many who love Diamond, me included. They just have to continue to improve on those annual maintenance fees.

When I was an owner with Club Regina, Raintree Vacation Club pulled that special assessment nonsense on us. At some point they pulled it back. I don't know if it was the hue and cry of owners with pitchforks that did it or they found out it wasn't legal. Maybe both. Just a thought.

Just found this posted on the vacationclub.com site. Marriott International is officially out of the timeshare business. Anyone know how this may effect current deeded owners?

"As of November 21, 2011 Marriott Ownership Resorts, Inc. and its affiliates independently own and manage the Marriott Vacation Club program. The programs and products provided under the Marriott Vacation Club brand are owned, developed, and sold by Marriott Ownership Resorts, Inc. and its affiliates, not by Marriott International, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Marriott Ownership Resorts, Inc. and its affiliates are independent entities from and not affiliates of Marriott International, Inc. Marriott Ownership Resorts, Inc. and its affiliates use the Marriott marks under license from Marriott International, Inc. and its affiliate, and the right to use such marks shall cease if such license expires or is revoked or terminated. Marriott International, Inc. and its affiliates make no representations, warranties, or guaranties, express or implied, with respect to the information contained in any offering documents or with respect to the Marriott Vacation Club program."