WALK AWAY FROM TIMESHARE

At a timeshare into which we exchanged a while back the employees were talking about what happens when the resort gets a timeshare back. They were trying to resell it,(not to us) but in the meantime they said that the buyer still owed maintenance fees. I'm not positive whether they meant current fees or the fees due and unpaid before they took the week back. Obviously, a new buyer should not be saddled with the back payments. MD

pattig31 wrote:

I'm telling you, you can walk away from the thing without serious impact. There might be a note on your credit report, but it will be ignored by most if not all financial firms (credit card companies and banks) given the high pressure sales approach timeshare firms take.

Walking away is easy ....this is the dirty little secret the timeshare people don't want you to know (I am sure the bold script above was written by a timeshare employee hired specifically to supervise this blog and intervene when they feel it is necessary to protect their interests). Don't throw good money after bad....these firms will not spend money on lawyers chasing you. Accept you made a bad decision and walk away if you aren't receiving the value you expected.

Also, when timeshare owners die...this is usually what happens.

Pattig31,

If by "bold script above" you mean jayjay, I have come to the conclusion that most of his advice is good. He has had lots of experience with TSs.

In addition, if you are in bankrupcy, the Trustee usually lets you keep the TS, since they don't consider it a valuable source of revenue or expense.

I am surprised that a TS is abandoned at the owner's death. I see no reason why it would not go to the specified or legal heirs just like any other property.

pattig31 wrote:

I'm telling you, you can walk away from the thing without serious impact. There might be a note on your credit report, but it will be ignored by most if not all financial firms (credit card companies and banks) given the high pressure sales approach timeshare firms take.

Walking away is easy ....this is the dirty little secret the timeshare people don't want you to know (I am sure the bold script above was written by a timeshare employee hired specifically to supervise this blog and intervene when they feel it is necessary to protect their interests). Don't throw good money after bad....these firms will not spend money on lawyers chasing you. Accept you made a bad decision and walk away if you aren't receiving the value you expected.

Also, when timeshare owners die...this is usually what happens.

When you buy a timeshare, whether developer or resale, and you sign that contract you are then responsible for paying yearly maintenance fees and you CANNOT JUST WALK AWAY when you get tired of paying those fees without repercussions.

If that was the case you would see millions upon millions of timeshare owners doing that and you would see NO RESALES in the marketplace ... people would just stop paying.

Maintenance fees are the bread and butter of any resort and when you simply quit paying your fees you are adversely affecting all other owners since they have to then take up the slack for the freeloaders/non-payers.

I have owned nine timeshare weeks and I would have never, ever neglected my obligation to pay my maintenance fees. I signed those contracts in good faith.

The only other option you have is to ask the resort if they will take a deed back, but the vast majority will not do so.

I'm mystified as to why you think a timeshare monetary obligation is any different from any other monetary obligation you owe?

Regardless of what "you would do", or "whether you are mystified" by what others would do, I am simply relating what has actually happened to people I know. These people ARE NOT BANKRUPTCIES, they in fact have very good credit, and have been given very good advice of how the situation will actually be dealt with, as opposed to what timeshare companies tell them. They know in fact that the threats are meaningless, and refuse to be intimated. Remember, these are people who have elected to walk away from their full investment, so its not like it isn't painful for them.

Most people who are unhappy with their purchase are the people who bought into the idea that they could exchange for another location. They have found that this promise has not been fulfilled, and they in fact have very few opportunities to exchange their timeshare although they "banked early". So in fact, the timeshare company (and RCI or same) have reneged on the contract of promised services which the client is paying for through maintenance fees. Nobody has to keep paying for a service they are NOT receiving. So they stop their maintenance fees, the timeshare company reposesses and sells it to the next dupe, and they whole thing starts again w;ith someone new.

Economically speaking now is absolutely the best time to walk away from these fees. The financial markets are so preoccupied with people not paying for their home mortgages, there will virtually no concern regarding the much lesser problem of unpaid timeshare maintenance fees by people who otherwise have good credit.

Finally, if you look on ebay...say today...you will see that there are very few timeshares for sale that have any bids...they only sellable timeshare units are in ski country...both US and Europe and very few golf destinations such as Hilton Head. The rest are virually NOT sellable even for $1. Don't believe me? Go to ebay and see for yourself. Don't kid yourself that your unit is sellable.

oh...and the only reason "millions and millions of people would walk away from their maintenance fee"if I am right....is MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE NOT GETTING THE VALUE THEY WERE PROMISED for their investment. Obviously by your own statement you agree that there are alot of unhappy timeshare owners out there. Rightly so...it is a scam. Think about it...you pay $500 maintenace fee for 1 WEEK. How many of us have property that costs $500/week to maintain. So...lets say you bank this property.. then you find out you can't get an exchange. Your week will expire in 2 years...but you can't find an exchange, so you book your own resort (if you can)...but you pay an exchange fee of $200. So your week just cost you $700, and it isn't even where you want to go! This is why they really want you to bank the property...immediately the cost to you of using the week rises by almost 50%. If you don't want to walk away, AND you are not having any luck on exchanges, I suggest you stop paying RCI fees, stop banking your week...and either rent the week you bought, or use it.

pattig31 wrote:

oh...and the only reason "millions and millions of people would walk away from their maintenance fee"if I am right....is MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE NOT GETTING THE VALUE THEY WERE PROMISED for their investment. Obviously by your own statement you agree that there are alot of unhappy timeshare owners out there. Rightly so...it is a scam. Think about it...you pay $500 maintenace fee for 1 WEEK. How many of us have property that costs $500/week to maintain. So...lets say you bank this property.. then you find out you can't get an exchange. Your week will expire in 2 years...but you can't find an exchange, so you book your own resort (if you can)...but you pay an exchange fee of $200. So your week just cost you $700, and it isn't even where you want to go! This is why they really want you to bank the property...immediately the cost to you of using the week rises by almost 50%. If you don't want to walk away, AND you are not having any luck on exchanges, I suggest you stop paying RCI fees, stop banking your week...and either rent the week you bought, or use it.

pattig31 wrote:

oh...and the only reason "millions and millions of people would walk away from their maintenance fee"if I am right....is MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE NOT GETTING THE VALUE THEY WERE PROMISED for their investment. Obviously by your own statement you agree that there are alot of unhappy timeshare owners out there. Rightly so...it is a scam. Think about it...you pay $500 maintenace fee for 1 WEEK. How many of us have property that costs $500/week to maintain. So...lets say you bank this property.. then you find out you can't get an exchange. Your week will expire in 2 years...but you can't find an exchange, so you book your own resort (if you can)...but you pay an exchange fee of $200. So your week just cost you $700, and it isn't even where you want to go! This is why they really want you to bank the property...immediately the cost to you of using the week rises by almost 50%. If you don't want to walk away, AND you are not having any luck on exchanges, I suggest you stop paying RCI fees, stop banking your week...and either rent the week you bought, or use it.

I didn't say that there weren't thousands of unhappy owners ... the resale market is evidence of that fact. What I'm saying is that if you signed a contract that no one forced you to sign, then you are legally obligated to uphold that contract or there will be repercussions on your credit rating unless the resort will take deedbacks.

Exactly what value were you promised? Who is forcing you to bank your week? Who is forcing you to belong to an exchange company? I would never buy a timeshare purely for exchanging. That's the worst possible excuse for buying any timeshare.

When we bought our timeshares we bought where we wanted to go (mountains and gulfront/oceanfront) and didn't depend on any exchange company to satisfy our needs. We did MAKE exchanges via RCI and II, but if they had not been successful exchanges we would have simply gone to our owned resorts. It's the educated and informed timeshare owner that will get VALUE from their timeshare(s).

One does not have to be a member of any exchange company to own a timeshare. As I said above, thousands of people simply buy where they want to go every year and don't care to exchange or may make an occasional exchange.

People must learn to research timesharing before they sign on that dotted line. Buying a timeshare (especially developer) is a major purchase like any other major purchase.

Why don't you try buying a timeshare and then stop paying maintenance fees and see what happens. Just because you become disenchanted with something you bought doesn't mean you can just quit paying what your contract stated is due.

The hundreds of $1 timeshares on Ebay are from postcard companies that charge clients $3000+ to take their unwanted timeshare off their hands and then turn around and sell them on Ebay for $1. This is a relatively new phenonenom that came about in the last few years. You never used to see $1 timeshares on Ebay, however this practice HAS devalued all timeshares.

pattig31 wrote:

oh...and the only reason "millions and millions of people would walk away from their maintenance fee"if I am right....is MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE NOT GETTING THE VALUE THEY WERE PROMISED for their investment.

The only investment timeshares offer is a yearly vacation for you and your family. Timeshares are not considered financial investments.

Regarding exhange costs...I own an American timeshare, and therefore have a contracted exchange fee of $164, however, I am a Canadian. When I call RCI, they consistently quote me an exchange fee of $200 + and I consistently have to argue with them to provide me with the fee I agreed to ....$164. Canadians who have bought in the US, and Americans who have bought in Canada should be aware of this attempt to pick your pocket.

In my case 75% of the sales pitch was around the benefits of exchange. Legally, because the timeshare company acted as the sales agent for RCI, they are legally required to ensure that the services are supplied as promised. In effect there are two contracts between the buyer and the timeshare company...the written one with the timeshare company and the verbal one regarding exchange. The timeshare company is legally responsible for adequate provision of (in my case RCI) services as the sales agent for those services. For those of you who were sold your timeshare primarily based on the value of exchange, you can easily prove breach of contract.

It's ONLY your WRITTEN contract that's LEGALLY binding. Anything said by a salesperson verbally won't hold water in a court of law UNLESS you used a tape recorder to tape the presentation (which I would do if I were to be present at a future timeshare presentation and was thinking of buying).

There's an old saying by knowledegable timeshare owners that, "if a timeshare salesperson is moving his/her lips they're lying". That's why it's so important to read your WRITTEN contract backwards and forwards before signing on that dotted line and everything TOLD you verbally by your salesperson that's not in the written contract be added to the written contract.

Does it mention anything about exchanging in your WRITTEN contract and, if so, does it state that via the exchange company you can get anything in the RCI/II Wishbooks you want at any time in an exchange? If not, then you don't have a leg to stand on as far as a breach of contract lawsuit.

No, it's not fair, but that's just the way it is. If the salesperson was pushing the benefits of exchanging to make you buy, then that should have raised a red flag. Exchanging is merely a side perk of timeshare ownership and getting what you want in an exchange is all about the trading power of the week you own and supply and demand of the week you want in an exchange.

As far as the Canadian RCI exchange fee, I know that it's somewhere around $199 while USA exchange fees are $164.

I wish you luck on your breach of contract lawsuit but don't hold your breath thinking you'll succeed from what a timeshare salesperson told you verbally.

pattig31 wrote:

Regarding exhange costs...I own an American timeshare, and therefore have a contracted exchange fee of $164, however, I am a Canadian. When I call RCI, they consistently quote me an exchange fee of $200 + and I consistently have to argue with them to provide me with the fee I agreed to ....$164. Canadians who have bought in the US, and Americans who have bought in Canada should be aware of this attempt to pick your pocket.

In my case 75% of the sales pitch was around the benefits of exchange. Legally, because the timeshare company acted as the sales agent for RCI, they are legally required to ensure that the services are supplied as promised. In effect there are two contracts between the buyer and the timeshare company...the written one with the timeshare company and the verbal one regarding exchange. The timeshare company is legally responsible for adequate provision of (in my case RCI) services as the sales agent for those services. For those of you who were sold your timeshare primarily based on the value of exchange, you can easily prove breach of contract.

pattig31 has some very interesting theories, but (I'm quite certain) no law degree or bar membership anywhere in the U.S., past or present. With all due respect to personal opinion and free expression, a few items she has stated simply scream and beg for factual correction, some of which are itemized below:

Re: >> Legally, because the timeshare company acted as the sales agent for RCI, they are legally required to ensure that the services are supplied as promised.<<

RCI is an exchange company (a large one and the biggest of them all, but just one of many others). RCI owns no physical real estate -- and never did. Accordingly, no resort sales representative anywhere or at any time, acts (or has ever acted) as "sales agent for RCI". While RCI membership might (or just as likely, might not) be included in a developer sold timeshare purchase, that's the extent of the relationship, other than the fact that the resort is "affiliated" with RCI. That "affiliation" means nothing more than the fact that the resort is acknowledged as a RCI exchange company member and, as such, is eligible to participate in the RCI exchange pool. That relationship is not mandatory for EITHER the resort of RCI and can be terminated by either one, virtually at will. ======================================

Re: >> In effect there are two contracts between the buyer and the timeshare company...the written one with the timeshare company and the verbal one regarding exchange. The timeshare company is legally responsible for adequate provision of (in my case RCI) services as the sales agent for those services. <<

I'm sorry, but this reasoning is badly flawed, legally. The ONE AND ONLY contract that exists is between the seller of the timeshare and the buyer of the timeshare. Once again, RCI is not a sales agent for anyone. They are an exchange company --- no more and no less (but not a very good one in recent years, in my opinion, I'd readily and certainly agree). You have a MEMBERSHIP in RCI which enables you to TRY to make exchanges (RCI makes very clear and in writing in their rules, terms and conditions that there are no (and there never have been) any guarantees of any kind regarding succeeding in making exchanges). You (and/or any other RCI member) can try to utilize or completely ignore (or even terminate) your RCI MEMBERSHIP, completely at will. If you've been lied to by a deceitful timeshare salesman (who is neither employed by, nor can ever speak as an authorized agent for, RCI) your issue is with the salesperson and with the salesperson alone. RCI has nothing whatsoever to do with that particular "beef". ======================================

Re: >> you can easily prove breach of contract. <<

The ONE AND ONLY contract that exists in the above described situation is the written contract which exists between the buyer and the seller of the timeshare. Anything not in writing within that particular contract simply DOES NOT EXIST in the eyes of the law (...any and all slimy timeshare salesperson lies, misrepresentations, and/or half-truths notwithstanding). RCI membership has its own (separate and unrelated to any and all individual resorts) rules, terms and conditions, addressing membership (for one, example that a RCI member can't rent out "exchanges" for profit).

It seems that perhaps you're attempting to rationalize in your own mind just walking away from the contractual responsibilities associated with timeshare ownership, apparently believing (or wanting to believe) that you have some lawful basis on which to do so. All I can say is.... "good luck with that....".

I have "no dog in this fight", but some of your statements (as individually addressed above) are just so grossly inaccurate that I felt compelled to weigh in to correct some truly blatant misstatements of fact as pertain to RCI, contracts, resort / RCI connection, etc. I'm not entering this fray any further than having now simply pointed out those factual / legal inaccuracies.

Again, I am speaking to a resort representative that is trying to keep the "spin" positive. The last thing these organizations want is a class action suit based on breach of contract...which you know as well as I is entirely feasible based on (a) breach of verbal contract and (b) fraudulent representation of future services to be provided.

Also...regarding ebay sales of timeshares...these are placed by resorts who have had to reposess units based on owner's failure to pay maintenance fee. There are lots of them out there. They are just fishing (or is it phishing?)

One other interesting thing is that I have been notified that unlike in the past I can only bank my unit (for RCI) by contacting my resort directly...RCI CANNOT PERFORM BANKING FUNCTIONS although I am paying them for this service. So...I pay RCI fees, yet a portion of the service is provided by my resort. Just as in the sales pitch the lines were blurred , so now in actual activity it is unclear whether I am dealing with my resort or with RCI regarding banking and exchanges.

Finally, I have learned that if I don't bank my week, I can call another RCI resort directly and they will consider a direct exchange for a $60.00 fee. In fact...although RCI online will say there are no units available, I have learned that you can exchange if you call direct and offer an "unbanked week" in exchange. So banking and exchange are very much a direct service of resorts.

I want to make it clear that RCI has informed me that only by contacting my resort directly can I bank with RCI.

Also I have called the resort and they have confirmed this.

Don't believe me? Call resorts run by daily management resorts 954 217 9870. This is the vacation village group.

pattig31 states, quoted in pertinent part:

>> The last thing these organizations want is a class action suit based on breach of contract...which you know as well as I is entirely feasible based on (a) breach of verbal contract and (b) fraudulent representation of future services to be provided. << ======================================

You've either missed (or simply chosen to ignore, as is your prerogative) several key points already made clearly known to you here:

1. There is simply no such thing as a "verbal contract". As far as contracts go, anything not expressed in writing, under the authorized signature of both parties to the contract, simply *DOES NOT EXIST* in the eyes of the law. Whether or not you've been lied to by a slimy sales representative does not in any way influence or alter this basic, fundamantal, indisputable fact of contract law. Obviously, since there is no such thing as a "verbal contract", there is (no surprise) also no such thing as "breach of verbal contract". You might wish and hope it was otherwise, but I'm afraid that you'll just have to keep wishing and hoping......

2. Class action suits require consolidation of numerous individuals or entities who collectively assert (and are willing to try to prove) a demonstrable, common harm. RCI, in fact, is currently the defendant in a class action suit by some of its own members). That said, your individual acceptance of the verbal lies, misrepresentations and half truths of a slimy salesperson (and never seeing those lies ever expressed in writing, but then going ahead and signing that contract anyhow) hardly constitutes any valid grounds whatsoever for a "class action lawsuit".

As far as RCI goes, they've never promised you (or anyone else) ANYTHING. They merely provide their membership the OPPORTUNITY and POSSIBILITY, as a VOLUNTARY MEMBER of their exchange company, to TRY to exchange what you own for something else of comparable value, WHEN AND IF it MIGHT become available. If some slick talking salesman told you otherwise, you have no valid "beef" with RCI, as disappointed as you might be (...join the crowd...) in your RCI membership.

Clearly, you have heard or read a few legal "buzz words and phrases" somewhere, but with all due respect you clearly don't otherwise know anything at all about their actual meaning and/or their application in the real world of U.S. law. ======================================

Re: >> Also...regarding ebay sales of eBay timeshares...these are placed by resorts who have had to reposess units based on owner's failure to pay maintenance fee. <<

Sorry, but you are completely wrong.....again. Resort HOA's which foreclose on owners generally only offer those units up for sale or auction internally (i.e., within the resort's current ownership population). VERY FEW resorts EVER sell on eBay AT ALL. I can count all the ones I know of in the U.S. on one hand (and still have a few fingers left over). Where on earth are you getting your information and erroneous conclusions?

The vast majority of timeshares offered on eBay are by so-called "Postcard Companies" (another group of slimy bottom dwellers in the timeshare world) who have acquired ownership of those timeshares from owners so frustrated that they have PAID the PCC (around $3k) just to "take the timeshare off their hands". The PCC has absolutely no connection to the resort being sold, and never did at any time. The PCC then just sells the timeshare on eBay for whatever they can get (even if it's only $1.00, they ALREADY made $3k taking the unit from the owner in the first place). If it doesn't sell, they have still made money (except that eventually THEY will be the ones holding the bag for overdue maintenance fees). Additionally, many PCC's have either their own "internal" closing company (more profit still) or a contract with one particular closing company, getting a reduced rate (or a direct kickback) for sending the PCC sales closings their way. There are, of course, also honest, individual owners / sellers on ebay, but they are a statistical minority. Again, my point is that very, very few resorts EVER sell (or even try to sell) their HOA owned weeks on eBay.

I am ALWAYS an advocate for the timeshare consumer, but I respectfully suggest that you really need to get a grip on the facts and realties of the situation you're discussing here while apparently being completely unencumbered by any actual knowledge of the legal details or applicable aspects of the law(s) involved.

Apologies for multiple edits undertaken solely to correct my poor typing skills. Content wise, I stand by every word........

pattig31 wrote:

Don't believe me? Call resorts run by daily management resorts 954 217 9870. This is the vacation village group.

pattig31 wrote:

Finally, I have learned that if I don't bank my week, I can call another RCI resort directly and they will consider a direct exchange for a $60.00 fee. In fact...although RCI online will say there are no units available, I have learned that you can exchange if you call direct and offer an "unbanked week" in exchange. So banking and exchange are very much a direct service of resorts.

Wouldn't everybody like to do a direct exchange with an RCI resort directly for $60 and not have to deal with RCI and all their fees ???? I have never heard, in all the years I've been dealing with timeshares, of this kind of arrangement.

Exactly where/what do you own? Is it a travel club of some sort or do you actually own a week at a resort? The scenario above sounds nothing like anything to do with timesharing.

Exactly what would a resort do with an unbanked week from another resort? Resorts aren't exchange companies.

I think you've gotten some very wrong timeshare information from somewhere and you need to education yourself on the subject of timesharing before offering advice .... with all due respect intended.