PERHAPS IT'S TIME FOR A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT ....

To you folks that's been scammed by an UPFRONT FEE RESALE COMPANY, perhaps you should consider a class action lawsuit against all upfront fee resale companies.

Are there any Redweek members out there that are attorneys? If so, such a lawsuit could possibly be very lucrative to you. Can you imagine the thousands upon thousands of complaintants that's been suckered in by these companies and their lies (re: unrealistic quoted prices they can get for your timeshare; someone is waiting for your exact timeshare week; moneyback guarantee if your week has not sold within a certain amount of time etc.) and the many other deceptions and lies that are told.

Something to think about ......

jayjay has stated, quoted only in pertinent part:

>> To you folks that's been scammed by an UPFRONT FEE RESALE COMPANY, perhaps you should consider a class action lawsuit against all upfront fee resale companies. << =====================================

The procedural fact (and difficulty) is that any such suit would have to be filed against each individual company, one by one. There is no procedural possibility of filing a single (i.e., collective) action against "all" upfront fee resale companies". It's just not procedurally possible.

In a class action suit, there first has to be an assembly of directly impacted people identified and on board to file suit. If someone is not directly impacted, they can't just "join in". The sued party (defendant) can then request "class certification" (confirmed validity) of the group (class). This is exactly what RCI has done in the class action suit filed against them (Murillo vs. RCI). A judge's decision on that "class certification" process is actually due any day now on (just that particular portion) of that ongoing case against RCI.

Frankly, I believe that most private attorneys would be not the least bit interested in this type of litigation. It's lengthy, expensive, difficult --- and the complainants often don't have very good documentation or supporting records (and sometimes they have none at all). I also have doubts about such litigation being potentially "lucrative" for the attorney(s) representing the plaintiffs. Last (but certainly not least), the participants (or victims, if you prefer) have all willingly and voluntarily entered into their arrangement with the company. While I certainly do empathize with their plight on a personal level, the objective fact remains that it's still a very weak case, from a legal perspective.

My personal view is that folks who have succumbed to the lies and misrepresentations of these bottom dwelling, parasitic upfront fee thieves would have much better luck pursuing formal complaints directly with the Attorney General's office in the state in which the practice occurs (Florida, usually), supplying chronologically presented facts (in writing, no phone calls) and copies of any and all pertinent documents. There are also other consumer advocacy routes available too, some already identified previously here in Redweek forums, but I have no personal experience with those particular entities. Either route has much better prospect for success than a "class action" suit. Just my personal opinion, but it's a well informed one.

I do agree that the first thing anyone should do is file a formal complaint with the AG of the state where the upfront fee company is located, or, as Redweek member garym is trying to do, getting the media involved.

However there has to be thousands upon thousands of timeshare complaints already filed with the AG in Florida over the years since there are so many timeshare resorts and units in that state. But I'm not sure the AG there is willing to pursue such complaints as timesharing is a major industry in that state that brings in tax revenue and major tourism dollars. If the AG had intervened I believe we would have seen some major changes in that industry. It's going to take action in another venue to bring about change.

One change I would like to see is all presentations and transactions, regarding anything to do with the timeshare industry, be tape recorded and filed. I have read thousands of complaints that the developer salesperson verbally told buyers untruths that were not included in the written contract, which is the only contract that is legally binding.

I always recommend that anyone buying a timeshare read their contract back and forth and in and out before signing on that dotted line, but people are on vacation and most are not going to waste time by reading a lengthy contract. They took the salesperson's word as truth.

I couldn't/wouldn't join in such a class action lawsuit myself as I never contemplated contacting an upfront fee company to sell my timeshares in the first place. I would have rather given them away.

Yes, the victims (complaintants) willlingly entered into an agreement with the upfront fee company, however the company more than likely lied to them by inflating the price they could get and telling them they had a buyer waiting in the wings for their timeshare. It's the lies that get to me along with the upfront fees.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't like federal government intervention and regulations but in this case I would applaud federal government getting involved to regulate all phases of the timeshare industry from developer salespeople lies to upfront fee companies to postcard companies and other scams involving timeshare.

I have been scammed by two different timeshare resale companies. I would love to stop these people! Em

jayjay has observed, quoted only in pertinent part:

>> But I'm not sure the AG there is willing to pursue such complaints as timesharing is a major industry in that state that brings in tax revenue and major tourism dollars. If the AG had intervened I believe we would have seen some major changes in that industry. << ======================================

I think that a few observations of fact are in order here, while not seeking to start an argument (or even participate in further exchange):

1. Folks on various Internet forums have reported some success in recovering money (never all of it) after filing (well documented, written) complaints with the Florida AG office. I do not practice law in Florida, but I do believe these "voluntarily settlements" are agreed to by the company to just make the AG lawyers "go away" --- maybe not because there has been an actual violation of law. Unfortunately, it seems that most people who have entered into these unfortunate arrangements with the upfront fee parasites --- and inevitably just got burned --- don't usually seem able or willing to assemble their case facts and documents for the authorities to be able to go to bat for them. In some instances, there is nothing more than a credit card charge, voluntarily authorized over the phone, with no contract, no documents. And the complaint usually arises months later. Unfortunately in our legal system the rule of thumb is --- no facts, no case.

2. I think you may perhaps misunderstand AG interest and involvement in such matters in Florida. In my own limited experience, the AG office does indeed seem interested in cleaning up the long standing negative images of swamp land and snake oil salesmen, which is an unfortunate part of Florida history. I know of a number of instances of (successful) criminal prosecution, with people going to jail. However, those cases involved outright fraud and conspiracy--- not voluntary arrangements where one party has regrets after voluntarily entering into a (sometimes undefined) agreement, but then seeing no results. My real point here is that the AG office does not make or pass laws ---that particular process occurs in the legislature. I personally know several state attorneys in FL and they are honest, vigorous and energetic prosecutors in the performance of their roles and duties. That said, they can only work with the laws existing on the books. I think your beef, if you have one, is more appropriately with the lawmakers in FL (about whom I claim no personal knowledge). It's the LAWS that are inadequate ---not the people responsible for enforcing them.

ken1193 wrote:

However, those cases involved outright fraud and conspiracy--- not voluntary arrangements where one party has regrets after voluntarily entering into a (sometimes undefined) agreement, but then seeing no results.

If you will re-read (comprehend) my previous post you will see that, yes, victims do volunteer to enter into an agreement BECAUSE of the LIES and UNTRUTHS told to them by upfront fee companies and developer salespeople.

Through the years I have read thousands of testimonials of such lies (many here on Redweek) and something needs to be done about it, period. Florida laws evidently aren't strict enough on the entire timeshare industry in stopping their deceptive practices. That's why I mentioned federal regulations being implemented.

Re: >> If you will re-read (comprehend) my previous post you will see that, yes, victims do volunteer to enter into an agreement BECAUSE of the LIES and UNTRUTHS told to them by upfront fee companies and developer salespeople.

Through the years I have read thousands of testimonials of such lies (many here on Redweek) and something needs to be done about it, period. Florida laws evidently aren't strict enough on the entire timeshare industry in stopping their deceptive practices. That's why I mentioned federal regulations being implemented. << ======================================

I fully comprehended your posts and, believe it or not, we don't disagree (although you apparently want to have an argument anyhow). I certainly cannot (and I do not) claim to have read "thousands of testimonials", as you claim to have accomplished, but we would (I hope) nonetheless at least agree that a problem does indeed exist here.

Having had some direct, hands-on experience with the legalities of adopting federal regulations (admittedly in an entirely different and unrelated industry, but the legal process of federal regulation development is still absolutely identical), it's hard for me to imagine a federal level of interest in a matter which, in fact, seems to be very highly localized and limited in its problematic occurrence to just a very few states --- Florida of course being the hands down leader.

Among the "thousands of testimonials" you have allegedly read (that claim is simply not believable to me, frankly, but no matter...), I wonder how many of the upfront fee parasites are located outside of Florida?

In any event, my intended point was (and still remains) that an improvement in Florida state laws on this matter would go far to help solve most of this problem, virtually overnight. Other states could easily follow the template when/if the parasites then closed up shop in Florida, only to emerge from their little holes in the ground in other states. This is largely what happened (successfully) in the development of "right of rescission" laws at state levels, giving consumers a "cooling off" period to cancel a contract (within specified time constraints) when they decide later in the privacy of their own home that they made a bad decision, perhaps in the face of undue influence, salesman pressure, guilt tactics, etc. Good laws, good for consumers --- bad for slick talking salespeople telling assorted lies and half-truths.

I don't disagree that federal regulations *could* solve this problem. However, having previously been personally and directly involved in the legal process of development and implementation of federal regulations (in an entirely unrelated industry) from draft to public hearing to Federal Register publication thereby making the matter "law", I can't personally imagine there being federal interest in timeshare matters that can be (and should be) addressed and corrected at the state level. But as usual, without any actual knowledge or personal experience regarding the details of the subject matter at hand, you'll undoubtedly still want the "last word" anyhow, so please go right ahead and further "enlighten" us.

Who's arguing? I asked you to re-read and comprehend my previous post as your reply had nothing to do with what I had written. Sheesh, you're far too sensitive.

The vast majority of the complaints I've read were concerning Florida and Vegas (and other complaints scattered throughout the USA) and Mexico. Thank goodness there's Profeco to protect buyers from developer salespeople's lies in Mexico. Profeco steps in to investigate such complaints and have gotten money returned to buyers scammed concerning lies told them by salespeople .... one lie being that buyers can't rescind a contract. There is no such agency to protect buyers from developer bought timeshares in the USA.

I've been reading timeshare forums for 10 years and have witnessed many such complaints on those forums. It's a neverending saga that evidently the state of Florida (being the leader in the timeshare industry) is doing nothing to alleviate all the timeshare scams out there. The Florida legislature has the power to change the entire timeshare industry but they seem resistant to any change. If not, then the feds need to step in . That was/is my point.

I have been contacted by a Law Firm that specializes in class action suits and initially they are showing interest. At this stage they have taken information from me and will investigate as to whether this is a feasible case for them. Like Ken has stated if they were to act upon this it would be against the company I have supplied information on only. Other companies would need to have suits brought against them individually.

The company I have dealt with has been in business over 10 years and has sales in the millions each year. This is a key factor in any class action suit since it shows the company has a stable (if not ethical) history and will provide a better chance for the class action to result in a judgment or settlement. Many advance fee resale company's are started by an ex sales rep from another company and are small operations with sales less than a million a year. These are not cases where an attorney would pursue any class action against them. Once again as Ken has stated, class action suits are expensive and long and there has to be a good potential of the suit being successful before it will be taken on by a firm.

There still is a very good chance the firm I have been contacted by will not accept this case on behalf of the timeshare owners that have been ripped off by the company I have dealt with. Although I do have more in depth documentation on how this company has misled timeshare owners and to whom they have done it to.

Even if they don't accept this case I still agree with jayjay, everything possible must be done to try and stop these rip off professionals. Is that a difficult task, absolutely it is but it's better to do something than nothing.

I'm not a party to any class action suit that would result but if by some small miracle one did come about that helped victims of an advance fee resale company then that's going to make it worth it to me.

Ok, so where/how do you get started? I just need some guidance because I got scammed myself and still receive those individuals' phone calls. I just wish I lived in Orlando, so I could go the address on that letter they sent asking for the rest of the money to never hear from them again. What's the AG?

jayjay wrote:

To you folks that's been scammed by an UPFRONT FEE RESALE COMPANY, perhaps you should consider a class action lawsuit against all upfront fee resale companies.

Are there any Redweek members out there that are attorneys? If so, such a lawsuit could possibly be very lucrative to you. Can you imagine the thousands upon thousands of complaintants that's been suckered in by these companies and their lies (re: unrealistic quoted prices they can get for your timeshare; someone is waiting for your exact timeshare week; moneyback guarantee if your week has not sold within a certain amount of time etc.) and the many other deceptions and lies that are told.

Something to think about ......

I agree that something should be done. I have been ripped off and still in need of getting rid of this stupid thing and can't. It appears that every state have different laws and rules about timeshares which probably makes it hard and difficult for lawyers to do anything. It's hard to believe that those "smart" lawyers out there havn't thought of doing something to not only help the people, but to financially help themselves. Any kind of help in terms of a aw suit would be helpful right now.

jayjay wrote:

I do agree that the first thing anyone should do is file a formal complaint with the AG of the state where the upfront fee company is located, or, as Redweek member garym is trying to do, getting the media involved.

However there has to be thousands upon thousands of timeshare complaints already filed with the AG in Florida over the years since there are so many timeshare resorts and units in that state. But I'm not sure the AG there is willing to pursue such complaints as timesharing is a major industry in that state that brings in tax revenue and major tourism dollars. If the AG had intervened I believe we would have seen some major changes in that industry. It's going to take action in another venue to bring about change.

One change I would like to see is all presentations and transactions, regarding anything to do with the timeshare industry, be tape recorded and filed. I have read thousands of complaints that the developer salesperson verbally told buyers untruths that were not included in the written contract, which is the only contract that is legally binding.

I always recommend that anyone buying a timeshare read their contract back and forth and in and out before signing on that dotted line, but people are on vacation and most are not going to waste time by reading a lengthy contract. They took the salesperson's word as truth.

I couldn't/wouldn't join in such a class action lawsuit myself as I never contemplated contacting an upfront fee company to sell my timeshares in the first place. I would have rather given them away.

Yes, the victims (complaintants) willlingly entered into an agreement with the upfront fee company, however the company more than likely lied to them by inflating the price they could get and telling them they had a buyer waiting in the wings for their timeshare. It's the lies that get to me along with the upfront fees.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't like federal government intervention and regulations but in this case I would applaud federal government getting involved to regulate all phases of the timeshare industry from developer salespeople lies to upfront fee companies to postcard companies and other scams involving timeshare.

I tried giving mine away and the company turned it down because it is not own and clear.

I need help bad with my timeshare and if you have any suggestions feel free to jump right in with advice ! ! Because of illness and future threats of income, I am trying to get rid of my timeshare, as well as other credit obligations. I am very afraid of the "up frount fee" companies that I have been approaching. Got any good companies to suggest ? Due to what I have been reading on this website, I'm afraid that question may never be answered. HELP ! !

joycee31 wrote:

I tried giving mine away and the company turned it down because it is not own and clear.

Are you saying that you haven't paid off the loan on your timeshare so you don't have clear title? If so, you're going to have an impossible task selling your timeshare if it has a loan balance. Timeshares are hard enough to sell with a free and clear title, much less one that has debt.

I don't know what the answer is for you until you pay off your timeshare loan.

joycee31 wrote:

I need help bad with my timeshare and if you have any suggestions feel free to jump right in with advice ! ! Because of illness and future threats of income, I am trying to get rid of my timeshare, as well as other credit obligations. I am very afraid of the "up frount fee" companies that I have been approaching. Got any good companies to suggest ? Due to what I have been reading on this website, I'm afraid that question may never be answered. HELP ! !

My advice, since you've asked, is to forget about any and all "companies" and take a more active role yourself. No one can do a better job of selling your timeshare than you can do on your own, with just a little effort and some minor advertising costs.

First, identify a realistic price by seeing what comparable weeks sell for at your resort. If yours is the lowest priced week (assuming similar weeks and seasons), then yours will be the first to get sold.

Second, prepare ads with clear and specific details about your week, fixed or float, and describe features of the resort. If there are restrictions about float week reservations, be honest and identify them right up front.

Place ads on RedWeek and on MyRersortNetwork.com. If you join Timeshare Users Group for $15, you'll get one free ad with your new membership. Advertising on Bidshares.com is free (although bids there are very low). I don't like or recommend eBay, but that's another option too.

The bottom line is that you can advertise your week in a multitude of places for well under $100 and if it has ANY desirability at all, and you've priced it competitively, you'll likely sell it. All of this assumes that you have no loans or delinquent maintenance fees. If you do, selling is much more difficult, since few people are looking to buy into someone else's debt when there are so very many timeshares offered and available free and clear.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

P.S. Placing your inquiry in this particular thread might not get much response, since the original subject of this thread was in regard to a class action lawsuit. If you want more selling advice and input than provided here, you might consider starting a new thread of your own entitled "seeeking advice on selling", or similar.

joycee31 states, quoted in pertinent part:

>> It appears that every state have different laws and rules about timeshares which probably makes it hard and difficult for lawyers to do anything. <<

That's not really true or accurate. A timeshare product is a timeshare product and is essentially the same virtually anywhere in the U.S. The only substantial difference in applicable laws from state to state is that some states have their own resale and recording requirements (South Carolina timeshare transactions require a lawyer, for example) and some states impose property transfer taxes for a timeshare transaction (Vermont, for example). Hawaii also has some unique issues. Other than that, there are few differences in the laws pertaining to timeshares from state to state. ALL states have "right of rescission" that allow for contract cancellation within varying time periods between 3--10 days.

The upfront fee parasites (the majority of whom, but not all, seem to set up their holes in the ground in Florida) collect exorbitant advertising fees to do next to nothing for the desperate seller. Unfortunately, they have done nothing which is actually against the law (unless they cross the line into matters requiring a state real estate license, but most are smart enough not to do so). Likewise for sleazy developer salespeople, licensed or not. In both instances, the respective bandits get far too much money from a WILLING person who VOLUNTARILY pays them far too much money for far too little in return. While that is unfortunate, perhaps unethical and (in my opinion) outright despicable, what it's NOT is illegal. With that fact in mind, neither lawyers nor law enforcement personnel have the ability to work magic acts against these parasites when no laws have been broken.