"Deed" or not??

Forum: Montecristo Estates by Pueblo Bonito

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By Lisa G.

"Deed" or not??

I am curious about the "deed" issue raised recently in a few of these discussion topics.

We bought in June 2007. The sales pitch at that time was that the fractional ownership had been changed to "deeded", actual real estate we could mortgage, pass on to heirs, etc. The Sales price sheet we were given (dated 3/15/2007) stated that American title insurance would be issued in 2008. Our contract included a $2500 closing cost. We were told that we would not receive the deed until the property was placed in a fideicomiso, which could not take place until the unit was fully constructed (summer of 2008). We were told this was different than the initial sales of the first villas built, which were not sold as deeded.

When we returned in June 2008, we got a new price list - this one dated 2/08 - no longer any mention of American title insurance being issued on the price sheet.

Our initial Certificate of Fractional ownership gave us 100 years of use, clearly not a "deed". Last fall I inquired about the "deed" we were promised, and received another Certificate of Fractional ownership. This one does not contain the 100 year language and states "the above mentioned individuals use period shall be in effect for perpetuity". The normal meaning of perpetuity is indefinitely. However, based on recent comments in this forum I am getting even more paranoid, and wonder whether the language is limiting the use to the life of my husband and I - meaning we could not pass on to heirs. This would be less than the intitial 100 year certificate.

FInally, a link below is to an article in 2007 WInter edition of LosCabos Guide, stating that ..."You’ll find Montecristo Estates high on a ridge within the 1,800-acre Cabo Pacifica resort, also home to Pueblo Bonito Sunset Beach and Pacifica Holistic Retreat and Spa. Since converting to deeded fractional, sales of these freestanding hacienda-style luxury villas have been booming"

Clearly - even Cabo real estate agents were aware that these were being sold as deeded.

http://www.loscabosguide.com/magazine/articles11/realestate1.htm

I am wondering what we really own? Has ANYONE ever received a deed or fideicomiso documentation. Does anyone know the current sales pitch? Are they still claiming the fractional ownership is deeded?

Like everone else we love the Villas, however the price we paid was based on our belief that we were buying a deeded fractional ownership of the villa.

Avatar for Lisa G. Lisa G.

10 years ago
Feb 07, 2009

By Lewis H.

"Deed" or not??

lisag322 wrote:
I am curious about the "deed" issue raised recently in a few of these discussion topics.

We bought in June 2007. The sales pitch at that time was that the fractional ownership had been changed to "deeded", actual real estate we could mortgage, pass on to heirs, etc. The Sales price sheet we were given (dated 3/15/2007) stated that American title insurance would be issued in 2008. Our contract included a $2500 closing cost. We were told that we would not receive the deed until the property was placed in a fideicomiso, which could not take place until the unit was fully constructed (summer of 2008). We were told this was different than the initial sales of the first villas built, which were not sold as deeded.

When we returned in June 2008, we got a new price list - this one dated 2/08 - no longer any mention of American title insurance being issued on the price sheet.

Our initial Certificate of Fractional ownership gave us 100 years of use, clearly not a "deed". Last fall I inquired about the "deed" we were promised, and received another Certificate of Fractional ownership. This one does not contain the 100 year language and states "the above mentioned individuals use period shall be in effect for perpetuity". The normal meaning of perpetuity is indefinitely. However, based on recent comments in this forum I am getting even more paranoid, and wonder whether the language is limiting the use to the life of my husband and I - meaning we could not pass on to heirs. This would be less than the intitial 100 year certificate.

FInally, a link below is to an article in 2007 WInter edition of LosCabos Guide, stating that ..."You’ll find Montecristo Estates high on a ridge within the 1,800-acre Cabo Pacifica resort, also home to Pueblo Bonito Sunset Beach and Pacifica Holistic Retreat and Spa. Since converting to deeded fractional, sales of these freestanding hacienda-style luxury villas have been booming"

Clearly - even Cabo real estate agents were aware that these were being sold as deeded.

http://www.loscabosguide.com/magazine/articles11/realestate1.htm

I am wondering what we really own? Has ANYONE ever received a deed or fideicomiso documentation. Does anyone know the current sales pitch? Are they still claiming the fractional ownership is deeded?

Like everone else we love the Villas, however the price we paid was based on our belief that we were buying a deeded fractional ownership of the villa.

I think your best bet is to send an email to Brenda, in Membership Services. She can be reached at member_services@pueblobonito.com.mx. I have had a lot of success getting the right answer from her rather than anyone in the sales department. The ONLY person in the sales department who has been honest with me is Luis Castillo, who is the assistant sales manager. He might also be of help.

Avatar for Lewis H. Lewis H.

10 years ago
Feb 08, 2009

By Jeffrey W.

I obtained a copy of the full Fidecommisso trust document translated into English. It basically says the bank owns all of the property's as trustee for the benefit of each fractional owner. Until the project is completed, however and the transfer is made to each fractional ower, (so as to avoid the transfer fee to the developer for each individual owner), all you own is a right to use for a period of years. If the developer decides to reneg, you would poobably need to sue to force the transfer of your deed. While I bought on resale mkt for less than half of what the developer was offering (which is ver common), when I was talking to their salesman about purchasing from the resort, he was making representations about the status of oownership and the trust even though he hadd never seen the trust document which I now have.

Avatar for Jeffrey W. Jeffrey W.

10 years ago
Aug 03, 2009

By Kerry D.

I just came from my owners meeting. What my sales guys is preaching now is that we will all be under a common fideocommisso in perpetuity (not 50, not 100 etc). When this will happen he could not say. I was told this years ago except I thought it would just be common amongst phase 1 MC and phase 2 MC would have a separate one. But apparently, not that MC is part of Quivera things have changed.

Also, any of you who have bought on that after market as I did, I was told today that the 50% golf benefit does not apply to us. This was news to me as I was told all benefits transfer with the sale. And, if true, I guess it not only affects all us aftermarket buyers but certainly affects everyones resale value.

Avatar for Kerry D. Kerry D.

10 years ago
Aug 11, 2009

By Cathy S.

We have been recently offered by the resort sales at PB Sunset/Montecristo to convert from the fractional ownership in MC to the shared use/timeshare arrangement which does away with the mandatory maintenance fee for 99 yrs and converts to points and maintenance fee only when used plus 5 yr refurbishment fee. Is this a scam or what? Can they go after our estate after our death if we don't convert and we the fractional ownership deed passes to our heirs?

Avatar for Cathy S. Cathy S.

3 years ago
Feb 24, 2016

By John H.

I am also an owner since 2009 and this year got the "hard sell" pitch, for a significant fee, to "upgrade" and convert to floating points. My view is that it is a lousy deal. First you are going from 16 or 15 days (one half of a month) to 14 day - -two weeks. On an annual basis that is a 10% giveback, from 24 half months to 4 weeks, so they can sell 4 more weeks. Second, you no longer have the right (and obligation for a maintenance fee) for a fixed block of time. Third, there is that 5 year "refurbishment fee" buried in the fine print. The upgrade they are trying to sell is , for this significant fee, is the flexibility to upgrade/downgrade accommodations to Novaspania or Sunset Beach and some dubious "higher service level" package - -all for the small sum of more than $20K if you are an annual owner.

I think that focusing on "after our demise" issue is missing the point. The Key to this resort's success is good services and maintenance into the future. My observation is that they have done this well so far, but owners have little visible means to compel this if the management company decides to let this deteriorate. I believe that once they run out of sales units, the economic pressures will be massive to let things run down. So my philosophy is to keep the period certain ownership and enjoy the enjoy the free meal and sales perc they offer to get the hard sell pitch.

Avatar for John H. John H.

3 years ago
Apr 13, 2016

By Jeffrey W.

While I wouldn't call the offer to "upgrade" a scam, it is clearly an attempt to read monetize the fractional ownerships. Once the resort sells out of fractional ownerships they have nothing more to sell. But if they get you to give up your fractional ownership and by these points they can continue to monetize the property by selling unlimited number of points (just like a a time-share). Also, as you will see from the rest of this post-the management is very keen on taking out of circulation older fractional ownership unit owners who have a significantly lower maintenance fee than newer owners.

We are fractional owners in Montecristo, phase I. (We bought our fractional ownership on the secondary market from one of the original owners for less than half of what the resort was charging.because new owner step into the shoes of existing owners, we pay one of the lowest maintenance fees for these properties).

Therefore, we negotiated a deal for "premium" points (at a significantly reduced price) but kept our fractional ownership. The salesman was desperate for us to "exchange" our fractional ownership or points. We simply kept our fractional ownership and bought the points for a very low price. Even during this process, there were promises made which were not accurate. What we did is require the salesperson to put in writing right then and there every promise that he was making to us and every perk that we demanded, (which he did) In this way we have the best of both worlds: We can rent or exchange of our two weeks a fractional ownership and then use our points for one week in phase 2 of Montecristo, which we prefer. In so doing, we make a profit on are two weeks and pay the maintenance on the points stay.

This so-called upgraded membership doesn't really offer you very much when you read the fine print.

All in all we find Montecristo to be a beautiful property and welcome all of the improvements that they have put in. But the best way to enjoy the property is either to rent from an owner or maintain your fractional ownership

Avatar for Jeffrey W. Jeffrey W.

3 years ago
Apr 13, 2016

By Curtis G.

How much did you get the premium points for? I paid / offered 300 elite + 1200 platinum for $28,000.

ericdavid83 wrote:
While I wouldn't call the offer to "upgrade" a scam, it is clearly an attempt to read monetize the fractional ownerships. Once the resort sells out of fractional ownerships they have nothing more to sell. But if they get you to give up your fractional ownership and by these points they can continue to monetize the property by selling unlimited number of points (just like a a time-share). Also, as you will see from the rest of this post-the management is very keen on taking out of circulation older fractional ownership unit owners who have a significantly lower maintenance fee than newer owners.

We are fractional owners in Montecristo, phase I. (We bought our fractional ownership on the secondary market from one of the original owners for less than half of what the resort was charging.because new owner step into the shoes of existing owners, we pay one of the lowest maintenance fees for these properties).

Therefore, we negotiated a deal for "premium" points (at a significantly reduced price) but kept our fractional ownership. The salesman was desperate for us to "exchange" our fractional ownership or points. We simply kept our fractional ownership and bought the points for a very low price. Even during this process, there were promises made which were not accurate. What we did is require the salesperson to put in writing right then and there every promise that he was making to us and every perk that we demanded, (which he did) In this way we have the best of both worlds: We can rent or exchange of our two weeks a fractional ownership and then use our points for one week in phase 2 of Montecristo, which we prefer. In so doing, we make a profit on are two weeks and pay the maintenance on the points stay.

This so-called upgraded membership doesn't really offer you very much when you read the fine print.

All in all we find Montecristo to be a beautiful property and welcome all of the improvements that they have put in. But the best way to enjoy the property is either to rent from an owner or maintain your fractional ownership

Avatar for Curtis G. Curtis G.

3 years ago
Aug 12, 2016

By Jeffrey W.

I have some late breaking info on this issue., if you would like to call me. I do not want to put any numbers in the post.

Avatar for Jeffrey W. Jeffrey W.

3 years ago
Aug 12, 2016

By Curtis G.

And how would I call you?

ericdavid83 wrote:
I have some late breaking info on this issue., if you would like to call me. I do not want to put any numbers in the post.

Avatar for Curtis G. Curtis G.

3 years ago
Aug 12, 2016

By Kathryn D.

Does anyone have any idea of how to get out from under Montecristo's Point system?

Avatar for Kathryn D. Kathryn D.

2 years ago
Jan 27, 2017

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