Marriott Going to Point Syst

After 6 years of owning Marriott timeshares, what advice would I give my 5 married children regarding the "financial aspects" of timeshare/points ownership? Incidentally, our ownership includes 5 Newport Coast weeks, 1 Custom House week in Boston, 1 Grand Chateau week in Las Vegas, and 2,500 Vacation Club points. This investment nears $200,000.

I would advise them to "rent" what they need thru Redweek; and, should they really insist on ownership, to only buy high season easily traded weeks in the secondary market. I would tell them not to worry about the added flexibility of the point system as it is not worth the cost. I would remind them of the annual maintenance fees that amount to half or more of the cost of renting a week. I would tell them to invest their money safely and avoid the extraordinary and immediate decline in value one experiences from buying a timeshare product. I would also remind them that there is no acceptable exit strategy for timeshare products.

What else? I would tell them to plan vacations 9-12 months in advance and that they can have the fun without the extraordinary cost of timeshare ownership. One last thing, I would remind them that we have had great "family building" experiences on Marriott vacations.

You have an excellent portfolio of Marriott properties, and we concur with your advice.

To clarify, I understand that our deeded weeks do not change to destination points unless we choose, on an annual basis, to convert. And I understand that our maintenance fees are based on the deeded week, which is now $5200 plus for three weeks ( or six weeks for the lock off option). We also have invested $115,000+ to purchase the three weeks. My point is that $115,000 (paid for) and $5200 annually would get me the rental at a lower investment. Would we travel to Hawaii every year if we hadn't invested so much? Probably not. Do we enjoy it? Yes. However, converting to points if you have a sought afterr property is a worse deal. And converting permanently does cost more in maintenance fees.

1. I am not aware that you have an option to convert your deeded weeks permanently to points. 2. Converting to points is not a worse deal. It depends on whether you wish a one or two bedrooms, what days of the week you use it *sun thru Thur are a good deal), and what season you use. I own 9 weeks. Some I use. Some I give to II. Some I convert to points. It all depends on how I plan to use them.

susanw461 wrote:

To clarify, I understand that our deeded weeks do not change to destination points unless we choose, on an annual basis, to convert. And I understand that our maintenance fees are based on the deeded week, which is now $5200 plus for three weeks ( or six weeks for the lock off option). We also have invested $115,000+ to purchase the three weeks. My point is that $115,000 (paid for) and $5200 annually would get me the rental at a lower investment. Would we travel to Hawaii every year if we hadn't invested so much? Probably not. Do we enjoy it? Yes. However, converting to points if you have a sought afterr property is a worse deal. And converting permanently does cost more in maintenance fees.

If you have a sought after property, you can also get more than one week for your week. So I think it's difficult to say that it's not always a good deal to turn to points. I find it better than getting an Accommodation Certificate from Interval International because you don't have to pay any extra out of pocket.

dennish144 wrote:

After 6 years of owning Marriott timeshares, what advice would I give my 5 married children regarding the "financial aspects" of timeshare/points ownership? Incidentally, our ownership includes 5 Newport Coast weeks, 1 Custom House week in Boston, 1 Grand Chateau week in Las Vegas, and 2,500 Vacation Club points. This investment nears $200,000.

I would advise them to "rent" what they need thru Redweek; and, should they really insist on ownership, to only buy high season easily traded weeks in the secondary market. I would tell them not to worry about the added flexibility of the point system as it is not worth the cost. I would remind them of the annual maintenance fees that amount to half or more of the cost of renting a week. I would tell them to invest their money safely and avoid the extraordinary and immediate decline in value one experiences from buying a timeshare product. I would also remind them that there is no acceptable exit strategy for timeshare products.

What else? I would tell them to plan vacations 9-12 months in advance and that they can have the fun without the extraordinary cost of timeshare ownership. One last thing, I would remind them that we have had great "family building" experiences on Marriott vacations.

Gosh Dennis,

When you put it like that it's a lot of money for a timeshare. I gather you must have bought direct from Marriott. $200,000 sounds like buying a house, huh? I bought my Ko Olina week for $20,000 and although I have not regretted it, I wish I had done it differently as in resale. Now my DRI points, I have paid about $35,000 for but I can stay at least 6 weeks during high demand season in a one bedroom, but I can stretch those same points to 3-4 months very easily if I decide to change to a lower demand season or incorporate studios too. I think I would pass on to my kids to just rent, but if they must have a timeshare, read, read, and do more reading before buying to learn the nuances of what they are getting.

You know we say this now, and then if the economy were to make a big change, we might be saying to people that they should have a timeshare.

MARRIOTT POINTS SYSTEM IS A JOKE No matter how you look at using the points they are more expensive than just your annual maintenance fees, not even counting the costs of purchasing your points. This whole program is a joke and a probably fraud. I have looked at 15 different possibilities of usage for points in the Marriott system and every one has a lower market price than just your annual maintenance fee for the equivalent points. They will tell you you no longer have fees, but try to book a cruise and the port charges and fees came to $900 when I tried to use 3,850 points. The exact same trip could be booked for $1,500 at an online site. This means that the points value is $600/3,850=.156 per point, when your maintenance fees alone cost you .43 per point. You would be crazy to use points.

Your real annual cost per point is about $1.44 using 25 year amortization of purchase (.37), annual maintenance fee (.43)and 7% cost of money (.65).

Use some due dilligence before you perchase any points from Marriott. JUST DOES NOT ADD UP.

Boy have you got that all wrong!

No. Thye aren't "obligating" Marriott weeks owners to switch, but they are putting a lot of their inventory into the points system, and those who spend an additional $15,000 plus, will get first dibs on where they want to stay. They also can plan 13 months out instead of 12. This came directly from our sales rep. The third presentation we listened to regarding the new Destination points program.

In addition, there will be very far fewer weeks dumped into Interval. We own two platinum weeks at Vegas (2 BR) and Palm Beach (3BR ocean front). I used to have no problem whatsoever trading through Interval. Now, you have to wait until very close to the check in date to trade. They dump weeks when they project how many they will have left over, and Interval gets the leftovers. Trading is MUCH more difficult through Interval than before.

We joined the Destinations program to have access to the points system in some form, but didn't buy additional points. We were told that those who purchased points would have preference and first dibs ahead of us. Then, comes Marriott weeks owners, and Interval members in that order.

The whole reason this occurred was not to make a better program for Marriott owners. It was to benefit Marriott after the housing market crash and following bad economy. Their sales for weeks dried up since the value of the weeks plummeted, and because there were far fewer people willing to let go of their hard earned money in a bad economy with no end in site. If you want to see how much money you have lost in value on your deed, look up what the same seasonal designation and property unit type is selling for on Redweek, Ebay, etc.. Marriott is no longer exercising their first right of refusal if you decide to sell. They don't want to buy back weeks they can't sell or make any money off of. There are plenty of reputable sellers on Ebay practically giving them away. I've spoken to several on the phone, and they never have a problem with Marriott intervening since they don't utilize FRR anymore. These are guys with great feedback doing it everyday. They buy forclosures, and from people needing to bail out fast. My weeks are worth one third of what we paid for them now based on data I collected from various resale sources.

Sure. You'll be fine if you stay at your home property during your purchased season, but when they sold people on these weeks, they walked them through the room with all of the flat screens set up, and showed all of the places you could trade for worldwide. They never mentioned to people buying at less desirable locations on off seasons that they would have problems trading for those beautiful locations they were shown. I've seen this complaint from owners for years. We we're smart enough to buy in desirable locations during peak season, but others weren't savvy enough to see through the sales pitch, so they got less than they thought they were getting.

Bottom line: Marriott is out to make as much money from you as possible, regardless of how much you have already spent as a loyal owner. If they wanted to honor their already loyal owners, they should have just converted them to the points system as an option instead of trying to bleed them dry, and make as much money as possible at their expense by requiring them to spend thousands more to buy points in order to get a decent trade.

Off subject a bit, but this still makes my point. We stayed at Oceana Palms last May, and attended they Destinations presentation again. At they end, they always send in someone to sell you a deal on coming back. We had no interest in spending $1,500 to stay at Oceana Palms again since we were able to trade for it, and we own at Ocean Pointe. But, they offered a package at Marriott's Singer Island Resort and Spa. They arranged a tour of the property and units. It was fabulous, so we took the bait, and plunked down $1,500 to stay there this coming third week of May. We figured we would bank our points or rent out the unit at Ocean Pointe and stay there instead. I had a bad feeling I should call to verify our status. So, I called and was told they didn't have a contract with the resort this year, so we woud have to stay at Oceana Palms instead. I am LIVID! Now, I'm waiting on a call back from the sales management there to ask for our money back. How do you think that's going to go? I'm sure it will be an uphill battle, and we will probably be stuck. I'll update after I find out the result . But, this is just one more example of how screwed up Marriott had become, and how little they care about thier owners.

Your misplaced faith in Marriott will eventually come back to bite you unless your willing to pay more a ton more for the privilege of trading for where you actually want to go.

davidc637 wrote:

They wont be obligating owners to switch. You can stay on the current "week for week" system, but they'll try to make some extra money by pitching the flexibility of points. Yea, dont worry, there will be a lot of owners that wont switch to points, but we'll have to keep using Interval for our exchanges.

You said: "----- those who spend an additional $15,000 plus, will get first dibs on where they want to stay." Yes, this is what some salespersons say. However, this statement is not correct. Don't ask sales people. Call Marriott's 888 number and ask.

While I don't pretend to understand all the detailed workings of this system, I believe when you buy points they are referred to as "trust points"--you purchased a share of the real estate trust in which unsold and any new MVC units reside. On the other hand when you convert you annual deeded week into points in a given year you receive points but they will receive a confirmation based on the availability created by other deeded owners who converted their week to points in the season you request a confirmation in. Really the only ones who know what this all means in terms of availability to new trust owners, deeded owners who have and have not converted to the points system is Marriott. Unfortunately, they must benefit by the ambiguity since it could be easily be communicated in a direct manner with FAQs or other content on their website.

j227 wrote:

You said: "----- those who spend an additional $15,000 plus, will get first dibs on where they want to stay." Yes, this is what some salespersons say. However, this statement is not correct. Don't ask sales people. Call Marriott's 888 number and ask.

The only question I have is should it be this difficult to use their system ? People who bought into their system spent a huge sum of money to join thier club. They obligated themselves to a lifetime of never ending increasing maintenance fees only to be told years down the road that they will have to invest even more to upgrade yet again.

The money most people spent just to join their program would be enough to purchase a new car. I guess there are a lot of people with money to burn.

If you surf enough websites you will find many timeshares out there to rent for less that a lot of people are paying in just maintenance fees. Just remember somewhere down the road your lifestyle might change and events occur in peoples lives that they no longer can or want to travel. Try selling or giving away your lifetime obligation and see how hard it has become in this economy.

I'm not condeming the industry but just pointing out some facts. People make choices and sign documents when they are in a state of euphoria when they are vacationing without reading through the papers they are signing coupled with the false promises made by many unscrupulous salespersons.

Just be wise and make and educated decisssion not based on impulse.

you might not be doing your kids a favor with your slightly biased advice

Best deal. If you know where you wish to go, purchase the timeshare on the open market. (Do not purchase points from Marriott) Example. You can purchase a Platinum week at Marriott Grande Vista on redweek for 4000. The points needed to go there for a week would be over 30K.

$5,200.00 M.F. Wow.....that is a lot $ 52,000 in 10 years add a 5% annually to that could be $63,000 in M.F. Alone

Wish I had read before we got talked into purchasing points to add to our existing deeded weeks.......all for the "privilege" of trying to getnin early to guarantee consecutive weeks. Salesperson seems to have dropped off the face of the earth when we asked for written confirmation of statementsmhe had made. Wishnthere was a Marriott owner website for owners to get together and discuss what Marriott has done. E.g. How can yountake existing units out of the 'pool' and put them in points when originally we were told all these units were available to owners when booking. For example, if you have 200 units available when you originally purchase and it is diminished due some of them being taken out to the point system does not that change your contract?!!! Bill Marriott has retired and the new regime has a different attitude to the people who believed in them.

While I have enrolled my legacy unit in Destination Points, I am among those that feel taken as Marriott has seriously diminished the value of my original investment. I bought a 2 br platinum unit in Shadow Ridge ( Palm Springs) golf resort 10 years ago simply for the trade value of the lockoff. It was never a place we intended to vacation at, as we own non-Marriott timeshare we vacation in. I happily traded our locked off units for great exchanges every year thru Interval until now. The destination points of my unit is poorly valued, and I am no longer to get the exchanges I got in the past. I do feel suckered. Had I known this, I definitely would have bought a unit in a place we would vacation in each year,rather than a unit for exchange. While Shadow Ridge is a beautiful golf property, my husband and I live in a similar desert climate near by, and are no longer able to golf.

I know this may be looking for a needle in a haystack, but I am wondering if there is a platinum deeded owner of Newport Coast who feels similarly, and would be interested in swapping deeds. The maintenance fees are comparable, and we visit Newport Coast frequently.

inak2 wrote:

While I have enrolled my legacy unit in Destination Points, I am among those that feel taken as Marriott has seriously diminished the value of my original investment. I bought a 2 br platinum unit in Shadow Ridge ( Palm Springs) golf resort 10 years ago simply for the trade value of the lockoff. It was never a place we intended to vacation at, as we own non-Marriott timeshare we vacation in. I happily traded our locked off units for great exchanges every year thru Interval until now. The destination points of my unit is poorly valued, and I am no longer to get the exchanges I got in the past. I do feel suckered. Had I known this, I definitely would have bought a unit in a place we would vacation in each year,rather than a unit for exchange. While Shadow Ridge is a beautiful golf property, my husband and I live in a similar desert climate near by, and are no longer able to golf.

I know this may be looking for a needle in a haystack, but I am wondering if there is a platinum deeded owner of Newport Coast who feels similarly, and would be interested in swapping deeds. The maintenance fees are comparable, and we visit Newport Coast frequently.

A Shadow Ridge for Newport Coast trade is not an equal one. Being on the California coast is more desirable than being in the desert. Also, Newport Coast has a longer platinum season than Shadow Ridge.

Also, please note that you can still trade your Marriott for II exchanges. However, you may need to explore beyond Marriott and use other timeshare systems.

Wow. Is there anyone out there who doesn't feel ripped off? It seems a lot of people are over complicating things. Didn't we all just buy because we wanted to have some fun and we knew that Marriott had a good reputation? That the only ROI was a nice place to stay and not for any potential profit if we wanted to sell? I added 2500 DCP to my two Aruba weeks. Did I do a thorough cost/benefit analysis? No. But, I do see a lot of travel possibilities on the MVC site that I wouldn't otherwise have had or I could simply go back to my home resort. It's taken me awhile to understand how the new system works because the introduction of the DC program was woefully lacking in specifics. Indeed, a salesperson I talked to at Frenchman's Cove admitted the company did an abysmal job of rolling out DC and that it was about a year before even they understood the product. I'm sure I could find better deals on trips if I wanted to spend my life on the computer. Far too much of my time is already consumed by it. Anyway, back to my first sentence? Can someone tell me something they "like" about DC and MVC in general? I agree with another poster, if you want a better understanding of DC, call Marriott's 888 number. Cathy Jackson is a wealth of info and very patient.

There are a lot of happy people and they sing the praises of the DC system. If you go to the forum section of TUG (tug2.net)right now, you will see that someone posted on the Marriott forum how they really like the DC program even though they were initially skeptical of the program. That original post started on January 31st and there have been quite a few responses to it that are quite happy. I like the flexibility a great deal. I only own a one week 2 bedroom lockoff, but I get great mileage from it. I like the fact that I can save to points and put 2 or 3 years together and make a major trip. Also, I am able to better use my DC points with my DRI points so I can do stays on all of the islands an not be relegated to just one week. I can stay 4 or 5 in one spot or do one side of an island for a couple of days and then another side of the same island for maybe a few more days.

Thank you. Just reviewed that site and was pleased to see more positive comments. I was about ready to open a vein what with all the negative postings.