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Ripoff - Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Program - New Point System
Thank you for your explanation. I have owned my first one since the 80's also, but even then, my first week was only worth 100,000 Rewards points ( because I made the mistake of buying Gold, not Platinum) and you could only turn in every other year for the Rewards points.... Yes, a " Rewards world trip" for 200,000 Rewards points would get you..7 nights in any Marriott hotel,2 plane tickets ( not points) any where in the world and 7 nights Smallest Hertz rent a car was a FABULOUS DEAL....and unfortunately, has been gone many, many years. Marriott Rewards points have been devalued several times over the years. That being said, that was not what we bought. Your contract was for 7 nights in your timeshare...in your case Sabal Palms, and you still have a right to occupy what you bought, and leave it to your kids. Interval has tightened the reins and you are now definitely getting trades of comparable worth where in the past in was easy to trade up. Points make it easier to get what you want....just less of it. Take advantage of the Sunday-Thursday rates as you can stay those five nights for the same point total as what Friday and Saturday will cost. Try a local Hampton for the weekend if you want to stay longer. I have done this for several years...you are essentially able to get 10 nights ( as long as they are Sunday- Thursday) for the same point total two weekends would cost you...not a bad deal!
Joy A.
We were never told when purchasing that our trading would become devalued. It was sold as something to enjoy with our grandchildren and we were shown all the different locations all over the world. It was buying into Marriott and it was forever.
Many things can devalue your timeshare. The actual building needing to be repaired or redecorated. (One year we were charged more money money for that too - I think it was called an additional assessment. Never told that could happen.) Your trading can also be of less value due to over population in a particular location. Even Marriott has a ridiculous amount of properties in Orlando. So that is why we never purchased more weeks. It is not right to be told if you now want to be able to stay at locations you stayed at before or want to return to and then stay for a shorter period of time because what you bought isn't worth as much and as now high ranked locations - it's just crazy to buy into that. What system will they come up with next so we are able to use what we first purchased as a forever vacation week for our growing families!!! I've heard of companies or people who are buying timeshares on the secondary market. What a mess this great idea has turned into.
Cynthia B.
did you see there is a group action regarding this transfer over to points. YEs you don't have to put your unit into points but supposedly you get additional days to add on, anytime access to units etc etc. Almost all have not happened for us in the past 2 years ...Marriott does not even have involvement either at the end of this year or next!!!! (info i was given) As the other lady mentioned, my folks were original owners of Marriot used their timeshares to travel the world, got upgrades at other places, were charter members in Maui but that is not available to us now. How can you possibly take the same amount of units in timeshare and then say 'some' of them will be put into point system. 100% of units were available to original deeded owners but now what is the percentage???????? A MAJOR CHANGE without us being able to say NO WAY! I hope the action succeeds.
klalaw
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/brinkmann-on-business/os-proposed-class-action-hits-marriott-timeshares-20140520-post.html
Here is a great article about a class action against Marriott Time share. EVERYONE - Contact the lawyer in NY to get on it.
************************************************************************************************ Here is the article in case you cannot open it.
The Marriott Vacation Club is being sued in a proposed class action that targets the company’s time-share trading programs.
The Orlando-based company was named a defendant in a lawsuit filed recently by three law firms on behalf of one named plaintiff, Salvatore Desantis of New Jersey.
The suit alleges that Desantis and other timeshare owners suffered loss of value to their timeshares when Marriott switched in 2010 from a week-based trade program to a points-based program.
The week-based program allowed customers to purchase a week of ownership at a specific location or resort. They could trade, but only with other specific locations. In the points program, customers buy points that can be used at a variety of locations. The points program is intended to offer more flexibility, but critics of the program complain that the basis for determining value of points at various properties can be arbitrary or disputed.
According to the suit, owners who purchased timeshares before 2010 are confined to the week-based program, which has a dwindling number of members.
Marriott has offered owners a chance to trade up into the point-based program, but only for a fee of $10,000, the suit alleges. Attorneys in the case said the class could number up to 15,000 timeshare owners.
A spokeswoman for MVC's law firm, Greenberg Traurig, said the company declined to comment on the lawsuit.
“You have a lot of people who feel like they’ve been short-changed,” said attorney Stephen Fearon of New York-based Squitieri & Fearon, one of the attorneys for Desantis. “In the next stage of discovery, we will try to get more information to identify the class.”
Ray Barto, another attorney with Squitieri & Fearon, said some owners “just don’t have the 10 grand, and some have it but just don’t want to shell that out. There’s also people who paid the fee already that could be in the class.”
The lawsuit seeks class action status. It was filed in Orange County Circuit Court in March but transferred May 9 to federal court in Orlando before U.S. District Judge Gregory A. Presnell. Other firms representing Desantis are Varnell & Warwick of Lady Lake and Gersowitz Libo & Korek of New York. Greenberg Traurig is representing Marriott Vacation Club.
Message boards for Marriott timeshare owners, including Marriott Rewards Insiders, reflected comments and discussion threads where members discussed the transition from weeks-based to points-based programs.
Rosa V.
So is the attorney is Stephan Fearon of Squitieri Fearon who We contact?
Thanks for offering some hope in this situation!
rosav11 wrote:http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/brinkmann-on-business/os-proposed-class-action-hits-marriott-timeshares-20140520-post.htmlHere is a great article about a class action against Marriott Time share. EVERYONE - Contact the lawyer in NY to get on it.
************************************************************************************************ Here is the article in case you cannot open it.
The Marriott Vacation Club is being sued in a proposed class action that targets the company’s time-share trading programs.
The Orlando-based company was named a defendant in a lawsuit filed recently by three law firms on behalf of one named plaintiff, Salvatore Desantis of New Jersey.
The suit alleges that Desantis and other timeshare owners suffered loss of value to their timeshares when Marriott switched in 2010 from a week-based trade program to a points-based program.
The week-based program allowed customers to purchase a week of ownership at a specific location or resort. They could trade, but only with other specific locations. In the points program, customers buy points that can be used at a variety of locations. The points program is intended to offer more flexibility, but critics of the program complain that the basis for determining value of points at various properties can be arbitrary or disputed.
According to the suit, owners who purchased timeshares before 2010 are confined to the week-based program, which has a dwindling number of members.
Marriott has offered owners a chance to trade up into the point-based program, but only for a fee of $10,000, the suit alleges. Attorneys in the case said the class could number up to 15,000 timeshare owners.
A spokeswoman for MVC's law firm, Greenberg Traurig, said the company declined to comment on the lawsuit.
“You have a lot of people who feel like they’ve been short-changed,” said attorney Stephen Fearon of New York-based Squitieri & Fearon, one of the attorneys for Desantis. “In the next stage of discovery, we will try to get more information to identify the class.”
Ray Barto, another attorney with Squitieri & Fearon, said some owners “just don’t have the 10 grand, and some have it but just don’t want to shell that out. There’s also people who paid the fee already that could be in the class.”
The lawsuit seeks class action status. It was filed in Orange County Circuit Court in March but transferred May 9 to federal court in Orlando before U.S. District Judge Gregory A. Presnell. Other firms representing Desantis are Varnell & Warwick of Lady Lake and Gersowitz Libo & Korek of New York. Greenberg Traurig is representing Marriott Vacation Club.
Message boards for Marriott timeshare owners, including Marriott Rewards Insiders, reflected comments and discussion threads where members discussed the transition from weeks-based to points-based programs.
Cynthia B.
The Marriott Vacation Club is being sued in a proposed class action that targets the company’s time-share trading programs.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/brinkmann-on-business/os-proposed-class-action-hits-marriott-timeshares-20140520-post.html
Rosa V.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/brinkmann-on-business/os-proposed-class-action-hits-marriott-timeshares-20140520-post.html
The Marriott Vacation Club is being sued in a proposed class action that targets the company’s time-share trading programs. The Orlando-based company was named a defendant in a lawsuit filed recently by three law firms on behalf of one named plaintiff, Salvatore Desantis of New Jersey. The suit alleges that Desantis and other timeshare owners suffered loss of value to their timeshares when Marriott switched in 2010 from a week-based trade program to a points-based program. The week-based program allowed customers to purchase a week of ownership at a specific location or resort. They could trade, but only with other specific locations. In the points program, customers buy points that can be used at a variety of locations. The points program is intended to offer more flexibility, but critics of the program complain that the basis for determining value of points at various properties can be arbitrary or disputed. According to the suit, owners who purchased timeshares before 2010 are confined to the week-based program, which has a dwindling number of members. Marriott has offered owners a chance to trade up into the point-based program, but only for a fee of $10,000, the suit alleges. Attorneys in the case said the class could number up to 15,000 timeshare owners. A spokeswoman for MVC's law firm, Greenberg Traurig, said the company declined to comment on the lawsuit. “You have a lot of people who feel like they’ve been short-changed,” said attorney Stephen Fearon of New York-based Squitieri & Fearon, one of the attorneys for Desantis. “In the next stage of discovery, we will try to get more information to identify the class.” Ray Barto, another attorney with Squitieri & Fearon, said some owners “just don’t have the 10 grand, and some have it but just don’t want to shell that out. There’s also people who paid the fee already that could be in the class.” The lawsuit seeks class action status. It was filed in Orange County Circuit Court in March but transferred May 9 to federal court in Orlando before U.S. District Judge Gregory A. Presnell. Other firms representing Desantis are Varnell & Warwick of Lady Lake and Gersowitz Libo & Korek of New York. Greenberg Traurig is representing Marriott Vacation Club. Message boards for Marriott timeshare owners, including Marriott Rewards Insiders, reflected comments and discussion threads where members discussed the transition from weeks-based to points-based programs.
Rosa V.
The problem with lawsuits that are brought up is that the owners do not always understand what they signed up for. When you signed all those paper you have a period of time to rescind. During that time you can have a lawyer review your documents or you can read the documents yourself.
In discovery here is what the realities in my opinion will be. First, you signed up to have a week at a specific location. Second, you have the right to trade it for another location using Interval International or another exchange system. Three, you can rent out your unit.
Anything else is gravy. The Marriott Rewards Points trades and anything else is a perk that Marriott can continue, suspend or discontinue at their discretion. It is unfortunate, but many people believe that they are ENTITLED to these perks, but they aren't.
I don't know where the $10,000 number comes from. I only have a week at Ko Olina that I bought when it first opened. I joined the points program, but it did not cost me anywhere near that. In fact, I think I paid around $700 and I remember for an incentive they gave me 800 Destination Club points which I used to add on some extra days to a Palm Desert vacation. I converted my unit to Destination points a few times and I have used it like I have in the past and traded to Interval International. The key is in the planning which has always been the case in trying to get reservations particularly during peak seasons.
My thoughts from reading many posts is that some of us on this site need to become more informed. Even those of us who are somewhat informed have to keep up because things are constantly changing with our timeshares. I would strongly suggest that folks tune into Timeshares Users Group (tug2.net) that discusses timeshares in general with a great deal of information. They also have a Marriott forum that is useful for information from some very savvy Marriott owners.
Charles S.
Last edited by charless345 on Dec 09, 2015 09:12 AM
what do you mean ''''''''THE MARRIOTT REWARDS POINTS TRADES AND ANYTHING ELSE IS A PERK THAT MARRIOTT CAN CONTINUE< SUSPEND< OR DISCONTINUE AT THEIR DISCRETION"?????????? What kind of PERK for points do you pay over $10,000 for that tells you that you can TRADE for ANYWHERE ANYTIME? Seriously, you must be a MARRIOTT employee. Of course, we old owners bought at a specific location and had the right to use it, trade on II, exchange, or rent. When Marriott REDUCES the amount of INVENTORY from the original BASE of 100% of the units you dont think we have a right to be upset. It was NOT A PERK but a part of our original contracts with them, who thought they would CHANGE THE GAME mid stream!!!! We bought points on the basis of being told it was a lot more than a PERK!If you only paid $700 for your points you got the Deal of the Century, call them and ask what the going price is for the points that they tell you all the ways you can use them.........NOT!
klalaw
Like most of the info in this thread the above mentioned lawsuit discussion is incorrect. The lawsuit was dismissed in in federal court over a year ago. Here's the link and the text.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/brinkmann-on-business/os-marriott-timeshare-points-program-lawsuit-dismissed-20141117-post.html
A federal judge in Orlando has ruled that Marriott Vacation Club had the right to introduce a points-based trading program for timeshares in 2010. A proposed class action lawsuit targeting the company’s trading programs was dismissed.
A group of law firms had filed the suit in March. Lead plaintiff Salvator Desantis, of New Jersey, alleged that the value of his timeshare ownership dropped when Marriott introduced its points program in 2010, because the points program depleted the number of people swapping weeks at Marriott’s timeshare resorts.
On Friday, U.S. District Judge Gregory Presnell ordered the Desantis case dismissed, in a strongly worded order, saying DeSantis “got what he was promised” and that Marriott was only “responding to a change in the timeshare market.”
Marriott argued that its contracts state that exchange programs can be changed at any time. Desantis acknowledged that he was offered a chance to convert to the points program for $595.
Presnell wrote in his order that Desantis wasn’t deceived, under Florida’s laws, because his contract warned that “market forces and alternative program opportunities may impact the number of timeshare estates available for exchange.”
Presnell ruled that Desantis’ attorneys had failed to provide grounds for the claims, which required “more than labels and conclusions, and a formulaic recitation of the elements of a cause of action will not do.”
In the points program, customers buy points that can be used at a variety of locations. The points program is intended to offer more flexibility, but critics of the program complain that the basis for determining value of points at various properties can be arbitrary or disputed.
MVC and its law firm, Greenberg Traurig, declined to comment on the lawsuit. Firms representing Desantis are New York-based Squitieri & Fearon, Varnell & Warwick of Lady Lake and Gersowitz Libo & Korek of New York.
Jim F.
I can see where there is a problem just by your response. You don't have a strong understanding of the program. I made a distinction of Marriott Rewards Points and Marriott Destination Club points. Marriott Rewards Points are FREE. Those are the points that Marriott gives people to stay at the various hotels when they initially buy timeshares in their system. Rewards points are the ones the Marriott credit card gives you. The Marriott Rewards program is a loyalty program that Marriott can stop at anytime if they choose to do so. That's how they are able to devalue the points because it's at their discretion.
The Destination Club points are the actual timeshare points. These are totally different. These points are the ones you probably paid the $10,000 for. Those points are tied to timeshare rooms. They can't be devalued. At each property each room is a certain amount of points per night or week. Marriott cannot change that. If a week is 2500 points during peak season now, it has to stay 2500 points ten years from now. The only thing that can go up of course is the price for the points.
Funny, I thought folks were talking about a new class action suit and come to find out that folks here are still referring to the old stuff. Well again, catch up and go to TUG and learn more about your timeshare. If you own a timeshare you should be on both Redweek and TUG.
Charles S.
I am not a Marriott employee, just an owner like you. Also, Marriott is not taking away from your inventory. There is a points inventory and a weeks inventory. Points owners take from the points inventory and weeks holders take away from the weeks inventory. Those who have both can get access to both.
Charles S.
As I stated earlier most of the information given in this thread is incorrect. I will add that it is mostly misleading also. Such is the case with the Marriott class action lawsuit in Hawaii. It is about resort fees at Marriott hotels. It has nothing to do with timeshare ownership. In fact it applies to all Hawaii hotels, not just ones managed by Marriott.
I believe that would be strike two for the lawsuit hopefuls. One more and you're out folks. Better check your facts before you post.
michaelf666 wrote:There is an active class action in U.S. District Court in Honolulu HI.Enough said
Jim F.
I have one observation about the assertion that Vacation Club Points may not be reduced in value. Marriott continues to sell and sell and sell Vacation Club Points and with each sale the points held by previous buyers is diluted. In that way the value of the points is reduced. Marriott has recently helped bolster the value of Vacation Club Points by acquiring new property. But until the new property goes on line points owners will have unavailability problems due to the growing number of points competing for available properties.
charless345 wrote:I can see where there is a problem just by your response. You don't have a strong understanding of the program. I made a distinction of Marriott Rewards Points and Marriott Destination Club points. Marriott Rewards Points are FREE. Those are the points that Marriott gives people to stay at the various hotels when they initially buy timeshares in their system. Rewards points are the ones the Marriott credit card gives you. The Marriott Rewards program is a loyalty program that Marriott can stop at anytime if they choose to do so. That's how they are able to devalue the points because it's at their discretion.The Destination Club points are the actual timeshare points. These are totally different. These points are the ones you probably paid the $10,000 for. Those points are tied to timeshare rooms. They can't be devalued. At each property each room is a certain amount of points per night or week. Marriott cannot change that. If a week is 2500 points during peak season now, it has to stay 2500 points ten years from now. The only thing that can go up of course is the price for the points.
Funny, I thought folks were talking about a new class action suit and come to find out that folks here are still referring to the old stuff. Well again, catch up and go to TUG and learn more about your timeshare. If you own a timeshare you should be on both Redweek and TUG.
Robert W.
Robertw529,
What I stated was that the number of Vacation Points to stay in a unit does not change, thus no matter how many dollars it cost to buy the points at the current value, the unit will always need the same amount of points to stay there. So if you bought points to stay in a Marriott Lakeshore Reserve Deluxe 2 bedroom and it was 3000 points to stay in that unit in the summer, then six years later it will be 3000 points to stay in that same 2 bedroom unit.
robertw529 wrote:I have one observation about the assertion that Vacation Club Points may not be reduced in value. Marriott continues to sell and sell and sell Vacation Club Points and with each sale the points held by previous buyers is diluted. In that way the value of the points is reduced. Marriott has recently helped bolster the value of Vacation Club Points by acquiring new property. But until the new property goes on line points owners will have unavailability problems due to the growing number of points competing for available properties.charless345 wrote:I can see where there is a problem just by your response. You don't have a strong understanding of the program. I made a distinction of Marriott Rewards Points and Marriott Destination Club points. Marriott Rewards Points are FREE. Those are the points that Marriott gives people to stay at the various hotels when they initially buy timeshares in their system. Rewards points are the ones the Marriott credit card gives you. The Marriott Rewards program is a loyalty program that Marriott can stop at anytime if they choose to do so. That's how they are able to devalue the points because it's at their discretion.The Destination Club points are the actual timeshare points. These are totally different. These points are the ones you probably paid the $10,000 for. Those points are tied to timeshare rooms. They can't be devalued. At each property each room is a certain amount of points per night or week. Marriott cannot change that. If a week is 2500 points during peak season now, it has to stay 2500 points ten years from now. The only thing that can go up of course is the price for the points.
Funny, I thought folks were talking about a new class action suit and come to find out that folks here are still referring to the old stuff. Well again, catch up and go to TUG and learn more about your timeshare. If you own a timeshare you should be on both Redweek and TUG.
Charles S.
EXAMPLE: If you have 100 rooms in a hotel that were available for Original Marriott owners to use when we all bought our weeks then Marriott changes their CONTRACT to points instead......where did they get the NEW rooms from??? The same 100 rooms that we originally were able to claim are not reduced in the amount of inventory available for us. They didn't ADD or BUILD new rooms but gave us a NEW DEAL that we didn't ask for or pay for. Come on, don't reply to my posts as if i don't understand. I stupidly bought points also and have not been able to use them for the high time period we bought originally and have KEPT my PLATINUM weeks. Forgive my ascerbic reply but it still 'frosts me' that we now have to try to get inventory that is now reduced and put into Points inventory from the original weeks inventory. If Marriott had added rooms for the points system it would have been acceptable but they did not. Marriott to my way of thinking still sells air, how many people now own points and how many rooms are actually available in ratio?
klalaw