What to do with inherited timeshare points ???

My father recently passed away and left a whole bunch of timeshare points in his estate. Points are based on purchase of 11 timeshares from several years ago. Some of the points are joint-tenancy with my step-mom, while the others are left to his living trust, which is comprised of my brother, sister, and myself. All of the timeshare points are paid off free and clear. It is the maintenance fees that I am concerned about. I suspect that my step-mom may be obligated to take over the fees on those timeshare points that she owned jointly with my father. I am not sure whether my brother, sister, and I can legally walk away from the timeshare points left in the living trust as none of us ever signed any contractual agreements to buy or maintain them in the first place. My brother and I are not really in a good position to takeover owner ship of more timeshares, as we each own several of our own. My sister is not able to take over the points either. I am wondering whether we (trustees of the living trust) are legally obligated to maintain the fees on our deceased father's timeshares, and if we walk away from them, would there be any negative impact on any ***living*** persons credit rating?

Sorry to hear of your loss!

We went through this about ten years ago losing our mother and two months later losing our father and with two sisters and two bothers involved with all the legal problems dealing with the trust and taxes and many other problems we didn't understand.

Your asking these questions on a timeshare forum will get you opinions but not much more.

I would tell you to talk to the legal person (lawyer) handling your details and either he can help or set your family up with a attorney to cover all these details with you and if needed handle it for you.

We had a home in N.California that sold for almost $700,000 and I was in charge and did hire a attorney to handle this against my brothers (know it all ) wishes because the fee came out of our total amount of money and they are very cheap.

About eight months after we closed the sale and I split up the money and we recieved a notice of a lien on the trust and we owed $245,000 dollars.

One call to our attorney and this issue was stopped with us owing nothing to the state because all paperwork had been completed. Problem was in the state office.

We were clear only because I was smart enough to understand I needed a attorney doing all the filings and I was right.

Even my brothers had to agree that I made right choice.

DARLENE!

thomash246 wrote:

My father recently passed away and left a whole bunch of timeshare points in his estate. Points are based on purchase of 11 timeshares from several years ago. Some of the points are joint-tenancy with my step-mom, while the others are left to his living trust, which is comprised of my brother, sister, and myself. All of the timeshare points are paid off free and clear. It is the maintenance fees that I am concerned about. I suspect that my step-mom may be obligated to take over the fees on those timeshare points that she owned jointly with my father. I am not sure whether my brother, sister, and I can legally walk away from the timeshare points left in the living trust as none of us ever signed any contractual agreements to buy or maintain them in the first place. My brother and I are not really in a good position to takeover owner ship of more timeshares, as we each own several of our own. My sister is not able to take over the points either. I am wondering whether we (trustees of the living trust) are legally obligated to maintain the fees on our deceased father's timeshares, and if we walk away from them, would there be any negative impact on any ***living*** persons credit rating?

The estate will not be closed out until the points are taken (including maintenance fees) by the heirs or they are sold. The estate will still be responsible for maintenance fees until that time.

thomash,

I suggest you follow the advice given by Darlene above where she said: "I would tell you to talk to the legal person (lawyer) handling your details and either he can help or set your family up with a attorney to cover all these details with you and if needed handle it for you." Darlene is also correct when she says that asking a legal question on a timeshare forum "will get you opinions but not much more". As a licensed attorney I will say that the legal opinion expressed by Jayjay is totally wrong on so many levels and she probably should be challenged by the State Bar in her home state with practicing law without a license. The best advice you can follow is to contact an attorney experienced in probate law.

carvana wrote:

thomash,

I suggest you follow the advice given by Darlene above where she said: "I would tell you to talk to the legal person (lawyer) handling your details and either he can help or set your family up with a attorney to cover all these details with you and if needed handle it for you." Darlene is also correct when she says that asking a legal question on a timeshare forum "will get you opinions but not much more". As a licensed attorney I will say that the legal opinion expressed by Jayjay is totally wrong on so many levels and she probably should be challenged by the State Bar in her home state with practicing law without a license. The best advice you can follow is to contact an attorney experienced in probate law.

I also would agree with Darlene to use the attorney's that understand the law and the legal system and pay the extra money to do it right.

I have talk to Darlene many times on timeshare forums over last few years and her and her husband being on the police force would have more knowledge than most of us.

If she admitted needing help then I would follow her advice. As she stated if not for a attorney their family would have been out more than $245,000 to the state of California.

PS, Darlene, Wish you would come back on Redweek more! Guess you just returned from Lake Tahoe or about to go for skiiing to your Hyatt Resort?

PHILL12

But...Isn't it true that an estate must continue to pay the timeshare MFs, assessments, etc until the TS is in someway removed from the estate or until there is NO $$ left to continue paying the fees (assuming there are no hiers willing to take the TS)?

To allow the estate to be closed, can the TS be put into a Trust (along with some cash to pay for a few years of fees)? If the TS cannot be sold, then the trust just runs out of money.

mike1536 wrote:

But...Isn't it true that an estate must continue to pay the timeshare MFs, assessments, etc until the TS is in someway removed from the estate ......

To carvana's dismay, the answer is a resounding YES. The heirs will NOT be responsible for the maintenance fees but the deceased's estate IS and the estate cannot be completely closed until the points are sold or the heirs take ownership and the responsibilites of such (maintenance fees, etc.). I would, however, advise you to seek the guidance of an estate attorney.

This has been discussed adnausem on Tug and the information above is provided by knowledgable attorneys (members) on that site.

I thank you all (especially Darlene) for the kindness and words of wisdom. This has been a sad and awkward time for us. My brother lives in the same state where our father had lived prior to his passing away, and he is in a better position than I to deal with a lawyer and the ensuing estate issues. Although I live 1200 miles away, I am merely trying to help him out wherever I can. I will pass along the opinions expressed here at Redweek to my brother and sister. We are not necessarily in a major hurry to unload a bunch of timeshares points just yet. I suppose I ought to figure ought how to rent them here on Redweek. Thanks,

thomash246 wrote:

I thank you all (especially Darlene) for the kindness and words of wisdom. This has been a sad and awkward time for us. My brother lives in the same state where our father had lived prior to his passing away, and he is in a better position than I to deal with a lawyer and the ensuing estate issues. Although I live 1200 miles away, I am merely trying to help him out wherever I can. I will pass along the opinions expressed here at Redweek to my brother and sister. We are not necessarily in a major hurry to unload a bunch of timeshares points just yet. I suppose I ought to figure ought how to rent them here on Redweek. Thanks,

I don't know how much you and your siblings like to travel, but you might consider dividing the points and keeping them for future vacations. The only problem I see in this scenario is how to divide the points? Are they all with one point system (ie; Marriott, Starwood, Hilton etc), are they all RCI points or are they a mixture of different point systems?

The best way to rent if you own points is to reserve a highly sought after week (any holiday week) in a highly sought after location then post that week for rent on internet listing sites such as Redweek. However, be aware that the travel industry is down as a whole due to the economy, so you might consider this wnen you list your rental price. Try comparing rentals with other owners ads and list yours lower.

Whatever you decide to do I wish you well and am sorry to hear of your father's passing. He must have loved to travel.

JayJay,

My grandfather once told me that when one wallows around with a pig one will come out of the sty smelling like a pig. Actually that is not what he said but I had to sanitize the comment for a public forum. My new year's resolution was to not engage in an exchange of comments with you for the reasons stated above but nevertheless I will respond to your latest comments.

The original question dealt with a joint tenancy and a living trust. Most attorneys - even those on Tug - know that a joint tenancy typically with a right of survivorship is used by spouses to by-pass probate (avoid probate), that is, keep the asset out of the estate. Also these same attorneys know that a living trust (inter vivos trust) is also used to by-pass probate or keep an asset out of the estate. It doesn't matter when an estate is closed or even opened if there are no assets in the estate. But, you didn't know that and still offered bad legal advice that if offered by an attorney would constitute mal-practice

As for your rediculous comment that an estate "cannot be completely closed until the points are sold or the heirs take ownership" is equally wrong. The probate laws vary between the fifty states and one should not offer advice with the intent that it is applicable to all fifty states as I learned from Ken when he pointed out that an attorney is required to close a timeshare sale in South Carolina. Still, the probate law is pretty uniform in all states that the title to real estate passes at the date of death although most if not all states in conformance with Federal Estate Tax law allow one to disclaim the bequest within nine months. Disclaim means to not accept the asset. My wills provide for a testamentary disclaimer trust to capture these assets but that is a lesson for another day.

The executor or administrator does not even have to transfer the timeshare title to the heir since it is real estate but most do just for chain of title purposes. If the timeshare title is not transferred on the resort books or on the deed records it remains in the name of the decedent. The title does not just magically appear as you (Jayjay) suggest in the name of the estate and/or the heir on the deed records and resort records. Some legal steps must be taken to accomplish that. If the executor or administrator and/or heir take no steps to change the title then the resort must institute legal action to force the estate and/or the heir - assuming the resort knows who that is - to change the title. That costs money and as a practical matter most resorts will simply foreclose.

Many states including my own allow for an independent administration of the estate and that means in the absence of malfeasance what he/she does stands. The executor is obligated to pay the bills that are due at the date of death and distribute the assets and at that point he/she can close the estate. The real estate (timeshare) passes at the date of death and no action is required by the executor unless done for chain of title purposes. I have advised many executors in my home state and have never been sued for malpractice.

Jayjay, you are a work in progress and my work with you is not over. It was a major accomplishment when you finally admitted that a timeshare buyer does not sign an agreement "on the dotted line" to pay maintenance fees. But, I still have work to do and I am up to the task.

Best wishes for the New Year!

thomash246 wrote:

I thank you all (especially Darlene) for the kindness and words of wisdom. This has been a sad and awkward time for us. My brother lives in the same state where our father had lived prior to his passing away, and he is in a better position than I to deal with a lawyer and the ensuing estate issues. Although I live 1200 miles away, I am merely trying to help him out wherever I can. I will pass along the opinions expressed here at Redweek to my brother and sister. We are not necessarily in a major hurry to unload a bunch of timeshares points just yet. I suppose I ought to figure ought how to rent them here on Redweek. Thanks,

Hope everything works out for you.

I would talk to family about these timeshare points and see how they feel before finishing up all the legal work. This is not the best time to try and sell anything to do with timeshares and you will probably lose money just selling. Now since you have a legal advisor is the time to find out where you stand.

Best wishes to you and your family.

Darlene

phill12 wrote:

Darlene, Wish you would come back on Redweek more! Guess you just returned from Lake Tahoe or about to go for skiiing to your Hyatt Resort?

PHILL12

Hi Phil We are going to Lake Tahoe for Presidents Week with family.

I deleted most of this post after Redweek did their removal of some wording of why I don't spend much time on here. Same old delete game that has been going on to many on here. All I did was give a answer but because it might sound like its about the every post spokes person it gets deleted.

Darlene

Carvana, again, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I stand by my statement, however I do recommend that the OP get the advice of a true 'estate' attorney and not simply by what he reads on an timeshare internet forum.

If a debtl from an estate is owed (such as maintenance fee bills) it's just like any other debt that has to be paid before the estate can be closed out. I can't understand why you would think otherwise.

The 'point system' to which he owes the maintenance fees really couldn't care less if the owner is deceased, all they care about is his estate paying the maintenance fees OR selling the points so that someone else pays them.

You always seem to think that just because we're talking timeshares that they are somehow irrelevant when it comes to paying maintenance fees owed to resorts and HOAs. Do you give the same advice concerning car payments, house payments, credit card payment and other debts owed?

If so, I'd like to hire you so I can get out from under all my financial obligations with no repercussions to my credit.

No wonder this country is in a financial mess with the type of advice you give. When an owner defaults on paying maintenanace fees, then it puts that much more of a burden on other owners who have to pick in the slack in the form of higher and higher fees.

We've had this discussion to the point of adnausem. Let the reader choose which to believe.

carvana wrote:

JayJay,

My grandfather once told me that when one wallows around with a pig one will come out of the sty smelling like a pig. Actually that is not what he said but I had to sanitize the comment for a public forum. My new year's resolution was to not engage in an exchange of comments with you for the reasons stated above but nevertheless I will respond to your latest comments.

I find the above statement highly offensive .... I've never resorted to name calling to get my point across. It's not professional conduct on your behalf IF you're an attorney at all, which I doubt seriously with the kind of advice you dole out.

carvana wrote:

Jayjay, you are a work in progress and my work with you is not over. It was a major accomplishment when you finally admitted that a timeshare buyer does not sign an agreement "on the dotted line" to pay maintenance fees. But, I still have work to do and I am up to the task. Best wishes for the New Year!

I never admitted that if a timeshare buyer does not sign an agreement 'on the dotted line' to pay maintenance fees that those future fees would be null and void. I said maintenance fees are part and parcel when anyone buys a timeshare, period. That goes without saying.

deleted by Darlene

jayjay wrote:

thomash246 wrote:

I thank you all (especially Darlene) for the kindness and words of wisdom. This has been a sad and awkward time for us. My brother lives in the same state where our father had lived prior to his passing away, and he is in a better position than I to deal with a lawyer and the ensuing estate issues. Although I live 1200 miles away, I am merely trying to help him out wherever I can. I will pass along the opinions expressed here at Redweek to my brother and sister. We are not necessarily in a major hurry to unload a bunch of timeshares points just yet. I suppose I ought to figure ought how to rent them here on Redweek. Thanks,

I don't know how much you and your siblings like to travel, but you might consider dividing the points and keeping them for future vacations. The only problem I see in this scenario is how to divide the points? Are they all with one point system (ie; Marriott, Starwood, Hilton etc), are they all RCI points or are they a mixture of different point systems?

thomash246 wrote:

Thanks for the advice. Although my siblings and I all like to travel, we already own many timeshares individually, and are not in a position to use more. I personally own 5 weeks, and I get 5 weeks of vacation each year. I am still at leat 12 years away from retirement. My brother has even more timeshare weeks and fewer weeks of vacation. The potential problem of how to divide the points is not considered a problem, as none of us really want them. In answer to your question, 8 of the timeshares are with Wyndham, and 3 are with Diamond Resorts. The point value systems from each company appear to be as different as yen and euros.

The best way to rent if you own points is to reserve a highly sought after week (any holiday week) in a highly sought after location then post that week for rent on internet listing sites such as Redweek. However, be aware that the travel industry is down as a whole due to the economy, so you might consider this wnen you list your rental price. Try comparing rentals with other owners ads and list yours lower.

thomash246 wrote:

That does sound like a good idea. I think I need to do some research to find statistically desirable weeks and locations, which will draw alot of potential renters. We are probably too late to get a head start on 2009, but perhaps we can minimize our losses in subsequent years, or perhaps break even far into the future. Maybe I'm being optimisitic here.

Whatever you decide to do I wish you well and am sorry to hear of your father's passing. He must have loved to travel.

thomash246 wrote:

Thanks for your kind words. Yes, my father did love to travel, about as much as he liked to hike in the Grand Canyon. . . year after year.

thomash246 wrote:

That does sound like a good idea. I think I need to do some research to find statistically desirable weeks and locations, which will draw alot of potential renters. We are probably too late to get a head start on 2009, but perhaps we can minimize our losses in subsequent years, or perhaps break even far into the future. Maybe I'm being optimisitic here.

mike1536 wrote: It's not too early to start. Many people looking for units are just starting to plan their vacations for 2009. I beleive Wyndham and Diamond owners can book any resort in their system and then rent it out (unlike renting an II or RCI exchange), the I suggest searching the RedWishes and the "Rentals Wanted" pages on various websites (vacationtimesharerentals.com tug2.net). I'm not sure if Wyndham owners can sell points to another owner on a yearly basis. Go to the TUG forum (www.tugbbs.com), they have a Wyndham thread and may be able to provide more insight. Good Luck

Thanks for the advice. I recently learned by talking with a Wyndham agent that Wyndham does have some sort in internal rental program, in which they market the rental of owner reserved time for a commission. It appears that Diamond resorts does not have such a program. I am geared up to do serious research on this. Now I also have to wonder about the ethics of dumping points onto to rentals just to salvage some value of those points having expiration dates. I will check out the other URL's you provided when I get some free time.