Better Business Lodging

Ken, I didn't mention anything about resorts like yours in the $3000-$14,000 range. The 2X's MF was for resorts that are in the $15,000-$30,000 resale range. My posts were also specifically aimed at the poster who was being asked for a large marketing fee to market her EOY Sedona resort and list it for a very high price which was later revealed to be $36,000. If he/she doesn't have something that regularly and easily rents out for 2X's or more MF than it isn't going to be worth that much and once the listing/marketing fee is paid, it will just sit on the list.

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tracey75 wrote:

The 2X's MF was for resorts that are in the $15,000-$30,000 resale range. My posts were also specifically aimed at the poster who was being asked for a large marketing fee to market her EOY Sedona resort and list it for a very high price which was later revealed to be $36,000.

I think that there are precious few U.S. mainland timeshares worth (or ever selling for) $15k -- $30k in the resale market (prime time, multi-room weeks at Hyatt Sunset Harbor or at the Galleon in Key West, FL may be noteworthy exceptions however). If they do exist outside of Hawaii, they are certainly outside of my sphere of knowledge or experience. I frankly think that such figures for resale timeshares are just someone's pipe dream 99.99% of the time.

Thank you all for the information. I just recently received a call from BBL. I'm a Widow and can no longer afford my Time Share. Of course they asked me for 685 dollars up front and would tack on the back another 600 when the TS is sold for 28,000. Very pleasant people. One day I will get out of this night mare of a TS. Oh and it is in Orlando at one of the big resorts, prime location according to them. Thanks again for the information.

ken1193 wrote:

tracey75 wrote:

The 2X's MF was for resorts that are in the $15,000-$30,000 resale range. My posts were also specifically aimed at the poster who was being asked for a large marketing fee to market her EOY Sedona resort and list it for a very high price which was later revealed to be $36,000.

I think that there are precious few U.S. mainland timeshares worth (or ever selling for) $15k -- $30k in the resale market (prime time, multi-room weeks at Hyatt Sunset Harbor or at the Galleon in Key West, FL may be noteworthy exceptions however). If they do exist outside of Hawaii, they are certainly outside of my sphere of knowledge or experience. I frankly think that such figures for resale timeshares are just someone's pipe dream 99.99% of the time.

There are Ocean Front 2 BR Marriotts in in SC, the fixed week 4th of july week would certainly be in that range but just a plain jane platinum float at Ocean Front Grand Ocean on HHI would probably make it. There are some fixed holiday ski weeks (week 52 and 7) in the larger more lux systems. DVC larger point packages easily fall in that range. There are some NYC Hiltons. I agree not many but they do exist.

ramonap24 wrote:

I just recently received a call from BBL. I'm a Widow and can no longer afford my Time Share. Of course they asked me for 685 dollars up front and would tack on the back another 600 when the TS is sold for 28,000. Very pleasant people. One day I will get out of this night mare of a TS. Oh and it is in Orlando at one of the big resorts, prime location according to them.

This is a scam, plain and simple. They would just take your "upfront" money and you will never hear from them again. This well worn "model" is designed only to collect upfront money from people desperate to part company with unwanted timeshare obligations.

By the way, there may not be ten timeshares in the Orlando resale market collectively added all TOGETHER worth $28,000. Those parasites just threw out that ridiculous figure in order to put dollar signs in your eyes and lure you into their thieving scheme. Don't do it --- you would just be throwing good money away and you would STILL remain the owner of record for the timeshare. Those lying weasels are NEVER going to sell your timeshare for you.

Such operations are (marginally) "legal" simply because they can always (truthfully) say "we are just a listing service and yes, we charge a fee to "list" timeshares. All they really have to do to operate within the bounds of legality is to have a lame, obscure web site (that few will ever view) and "list" timeshares there (at ridiculous prices that no one would ever pay), thereby fulfilling the "listing" obligation of their alleged "service". There work is then done ---and thanks for the money!

These types of operations have been around for many years --- and there are always plenty of them around. The names change, but the game remains the same. Don't play the game.

Have you formally asked your resort HOA if they would accept a "deedback"? Some will, most won't --- but you won't know unless you ask. Send a written inquiry to the HOA President. Don't bother having phone conversations with resort desk clerks who have no authority to decide on (or even discuss) "deedbacks". You won't receive any money if the HOA will accept a "deedback", but you will at least LAWFULLY part company with the ownership and be released from any and all future obligations. Worth at least asking, no?

I've been reading these boards all day since I'm seriously considering going with one of these companies. I haven't found any company that is willing to take my timeshare to help me sell it without paying upfront. They all don't seem too different from each other except for who they say they market to. Out of the three different ones I've spoken to this week alone, this company was the most helpful as far as not making me feel pressured to do something 'right now.' I see different people on this thread have quoted different prices but on their website it says 1485. My question is - what do you think is a reasonable price to pay for help with selling your timeshare? I do not have the time or energy to sell it myself so I know that I will have to pay someone sooner or later. Thanks for your help

loisb156 wrote:

My question is - what do you think is a reasonable price to pay for help with selling your timeshare? I do not have the time or energy to sell it myself so I know that I will have to pay someone sooner or later. Thanks for your help

My answer is that you should NEVER pay ANY entity a single penny IN ADVANCE "for help with selling your timeshare". Think about it for a moment --- if you pay them money "upfront", what motivation do they have to do ANYTHING MORE for you afterwards? NONE!

I have absolutely no affiliation of any kind with any of them them, but there are numerous licensed timeshare resale brokers who belong to a group whose members agree to take commission only from proceeds upon actual SALE of a timeshare. The group name is Licensed Timeshare Resale Brokers Association. Their website is either LTRBA.com or LRTBA.com --- I don't recall which. There members are located in various parts of the country, I believe. I met and spoke with a member of that group in Sarasota, FL on March 20, 2017. His name is Tom Tubbs, the principal in Island Consulting Realty in Sarasota, FL. Very nice guy, extremely knowledgeable and plainly as honest as the day is long. He regularly writes some very good articles on various timeshare issues. I would not hesitate to do business with him, but have never actually had a need or reason to do so.

That being said, you should probably expect to pay any LTRBA broker a minimum commission of $1,500 (or some percentage of the sale figure, whichever is more) --- but it sounds like you're willing to pay $1,500 UPFRONT right now. Don't do it! Don't deal with ANYONE who wants money upfront. Only deal with a LICENSED broker who will take their commission UPON sale, NEVER anyone one asking for money BEFORE the sale. Be smart. Good luck.

Ken, thank you for your detailed and very fast response. I must say that I have been researching this for a while and I have noticed that you seem to post on almost all of the resale boards always bashing the company. How do I know that you dont work for redweek who also advertises or for that other company you have just mentioned. I would love to see you as a credible source but how can you possibly have so much time on your hands to reply so fast? Please dont take it the wrong way its just that you have to understand our side . When we purchased we were told all sorts of things that weren't true from the sales rep so it seems like everything that has had anything to do with timeshare has been far from the truth. I will look into your company that takes at least 1500 like you say and a commission but do you know if they work with all resorts or just some? Also have you ever paid a company upfront yourself? Thanks for your help and good luck with getting rid of your timeshares as well if you still own any.

loisb156 wrote:

Ken, thank you for your detailed and very fast response. I must say that I have been researching this for a while and I have noticed that you seem to post on almost all of the resale boards always bashing the company. How do I know that you dont work for redweek who also advertises or for that other company you have just mentioned. I would love to see you as a credible source but how can you possibly have so much time on your hands to reply so fast? Please dont take it the wrong way its just that you have to understand our side . When we purchased we were told all sorts of things that weren't true from the sales rep so it seems like everything that has had anything to do with timeshare has been far from the truth. I will look into your company that takes at least 1500 like you say and a commission but do you know if they work with all resorts or just some? Also have you ever paid a company upfront yourself? Thanks for your help and good luck with getting rid of your timeshares as well if you still own any.

You are wise to be careful and suspicious about anyone and everyone swimming around in the murky and financially dangerous waters of "timeshare world".

I am retired and I do not work for or represent ANYONE. I am merely a subscriber to RedWeek (for about 10 years now), with no other affiliation and no "agenda". I briefly met the previously mentioned Tom Tubbs while I was on vacation in Florida for a few weeks this past winter; he was a speaker at a timeshare owner's group meeting that I attended on 3/20/17, as was a local attorney named Michael Finn and a management company representative whose name I don't recall. You could always just call Mr. Tubbs and talk to him directly --- don't just take my word for anything. Tubbs will tell you bluntly and honestly whether or not he would even take your listing AT ALL; he might not. In any event, he certainly won't be asking you for any money, so you have nothing to lose by just talking to him. It's your decision and certainly of no impact on me one way or another. I simply recommend NOT paying ANY upfront money to ANYONE --- to do NOTHING useful.

I don't usually have this much time on my hands to be on these forums. This week, I am in "recovery" mode after knee surgery, so I've been spending a few hours a day on the computer or reading, with one leg resting extended on a pillow covered hammock. Keeping my mind busy distracts me from pain --- I won't touch opioid-based pain killers under any circumstances. I can assure you that my input in these forums will be considerably less frequent once I am back up on two feet and mobile and can rejoin my life --- and drive again. Whether or not you choose to believe ANY of my input here is entirely up to you and makes no difference to me..

I've been a timeshare owner for many years and I currently sit as a (unpaid, elected) Board of Directors member at a small independent timeshare resort where we still own and use a few weeks each year. Aside from that, I have absolutely no affiliation with any person or business or organization of any kind associated in any way with the timeshare industry --- an industry which is unfortunately riddled with far too many thieves and liars and assorted other deceitful opportunists, parasites, scoundrels and weasels.

Good luck with selling your timeshare, however you ultimately decide to try to do so.

Oh, I forgot to answer one of your questions --- No, I have never paid an upfront fee to ANY entity to sell a timeshare (nor would I EVER consider doing so). I sold off (it certainly took some time) SEVEN timeshare weeks on my own since 2009 as we drastically reduced our ownerships. All had been resale market purchases --- we have never purchased directly from any developer. We STILL lost some money on four of the seven resales anyhow and approximately "broke even" on the others. I advertised for myself (yes, including paying for ads placed here on RedWeek). I also posted ads on Timeshare Users Group (no ad fees for TUG members). I paid closing costs using closing entities that I trust, one of which (JRA Services) closed down just last year when the principal made a career change. I won't even name the others, as you might then somehow think that I'm "promoting" them (I am not). Besides, you first need to find a willing buyer before you need to even begin to think or worry about "closing" details.

Thanks Ken and I hope your knee recovery goes smooth. My husband had knee surgery years ago and it was a very rough 3-6 months but after that he felt much better. Actually he felt so good that we went on vacation and wound up buying this darn timeshare!!!Im glad you didnt take offense to my comment. I have heard of the Flinn person you mentioned on several boards as well and overall the response seems to be more negative than positive but then again its hard to belive anything when it comes to timeshare like we already agreed. In researching the Tubbs person you mentioned I found this headline - Real estate agent jailed, accused of taking money but not closing deals- on this link http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2016/03/real_estate_agent_jailed_accus.html. Is this the gentleman you are recommending? If so he seems to be a lot worse than any of the companies i have looked into. In researhcing the Finn person i found this - Finn Law Group Michael Finn Timeshare Defense is a scam to collect your money. Timeshares will cancel your contract happily without a lawyer. Just do not pay and then resell it for more money. Marne Michigan- on http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/finn-law-group/largo-florida-33777/finn-law-group-michael-finn-timeshare-defense-is-a-scam-to-collect-your-money-timesha-1131421 I must say that finding these I cannot help but to further doubt that you are not representing one or both of them or that you are going with old info. Either way - thank you for your response and again, I hope you get well soon.

Tom Tubbs of Sarasota, FL is most certainly not in jail. The article you cite is about an entirely different person in Fenton, Michigan. The Tom Tubbs I met and his real estate office are both well and flourishing in Sarasota, Florida. I read two of Tubbs' (the Tubbs in Florida) recent articles just today, one addressing very well and very clearly the important details of proper contract rescission (cancellation) procedures under applicable state law.

All I know about attorney Michael Finn is that his firm is in Largo, FL and that he has no use for timeshare developers and / or ARDA , both of which clearly dislike him (that fact elevates his stature in my book). He was an articulate and interesting speaker to hear on 3/20/17 and he was NOT "peddling" ANYTHING, just addressing industry practices and issues. I've also read some interesting articles he has written on timeshare matters as well. That said, it is my firm belief that NO attorney ANYWHERE has any "magic beans" or "secrets" anyhow when it comes to attempting to shed unwanted timeshare ownerships.

For what it's worth, you've cited the negative input of a single unhappy person in Michigan (the only negative report I could find on Finn), yet a Google search readily reveals dozens of satisfied Finn clients. Just the same, I am NOT waving any flags or blowing any horns for ANYONE here. There are plenty enough "drive by shills" who visit these forums already.

So are you saying that ARDA is not credible? Those were just the first few links that I found when looking into the two that you mentioned but I did find more after posting. None of which I care to post about since that is not my goal of what I'm trying to achieve. What are your thoughts on the BBB?

loisb156 wrote:

So are you saying that ARDA is not credible? Those were just the first few links that I found when looking into the two that you mentioned but I did find more after posting. None of which I care to post about since that is not my goal of what I'm trying to achieve. What are your thoughts on the BBB?

the RD in ARDA stands for Resort Developers --- draw your own conclusions. ARDA represents the timeshare developers, not timeshare consumers. I am not impugning ARDA's "credibility", I am merely noting exactly who they REPRESENT --- and it surely isn't YOU!

BBB is a commercial business membership "club", which virtually any business willing to pay for membership can join. BBB has absolutely no legal authority or any real horsepower. I suppose there is some inherent value in being a repository for "complaints" that others might see and then be wary, but I'm not impressed by a "club" with no real muscle or any legal authority whatsoever. You may well have a different opinion; you asked for mine.

I would also note that when a slippery operation receives a sufficient number of unresolved BBB complaints and thereby acquires a low BBB "rating", the unsavory operation simply changes their company name in order to "create a clean slate". Still the same weasels with the same ill intent, but they may not have (...yet) managed to amass very many filed BBB complaints with their new "clean slate". When they do (and they will), they just simply "reinvent" themselves once again with a brand new name. Caveat Emptor --- Buyer Beware!

loisb156 wrote:

I do not have the time or energy to sell it myself so I know that I will have to pay someone sooner or later. Thanks for your help

Ken 1193 has given you some good advice but I will add this. As reluctant as you are to put forth some time and effort, doing so could literally save you thousands of dollars. That might be worth the time and effort.

First of all, maybe check E-Bay. If you have an account, log into it. Then search for units in the resort where you own and check completed sales, not active listings, to see what units at that resort actually sold for. You might be surprised to see that some are selling for peanuts with the owner offering to pay closing costs. On the other hand, they might have sold for a few thousand. If yours is in the former category, I would suggest just trying to give it away. That might be pretty quick and painless (something that you are apparently looking for).

If that is the case, then try advertising that you want to give your unit away. If you offer to pay closing costs and maybe even the next maintenance fee, you might find a taker fairly quickly.

Its not that I am reluctant to put forth time and effort, I'm just not very internet savvy and get tired easy so I cant see myself out there trying to talk to people about my timeshare. Besides that I also don't really understand what I have or the best way to use it. When it was purchased the rep told me that I could rent it out to pay maintenance fees and such but he is yet to even return any of my many calls. I checked with Ebay but even they charge and it requires some work as well and there is no guarantee that anything will get done once I pay them. I also see lots of timeshares there for $1 and I cannot even begin to fathom letting ours go for that low, heck we owe way more than that. Ken and Lance you guys have been great, thank you so much for your help. I will take all your advice into consideration.

lancec13 wrote:

loisb156 wrote:

I do not have the time or energy to sell it myself so I know that I will have to pay someone sooner or later. Thanks for your help

Ken 1193 has given you some good advice but I will add this. As reluctant as you are to put forth some time and effort, doing so could literally save you thousands of dollars. That might be worth the time and effort.

First of all, maybe check E-Bay. If you have an account, log into it. Then search for units in the resort where you own and check completed sales, not active listings, to see what units at that resort actually sold for. You might be surprised to see that some are selling for peanuts with the owner offering to pay closing costs. On the other hand, they might have sold for a few thousand. If yours is in the former category, I would suggest just trying to give it away. That might be pretty quick and painless (something that you are apparently looking for).

If that is the case, then try advertising that you want to give your unit away. If you offer to pay closing costs and maybe even the next maintenance fee, you might find a taker fairly quickly.

Makes perfect sense about ARDA I had never thought about it like that. And as for Better Business Bureau I totally agree. I think they just extort companies and mislead people so rarely do I go off of what the BBB says or recommends even less now that I know they are not a government agency. Thank you for your knowledge and time.

ken1193 wrote:

loisb156 wrote:

So are you saying that ARDA is not credible? Those were just the first few links that I found when looking into the two that you mentioned but I did find more after posting. None of which I care to post about since that is not my goal of what I'm trying to achieve. What are your thoughts on the BBB?

the RD in ARDA stands for Resort Developers; you can draw your own conclusions. ARDA represents the timeshare developers, not timeshare consumers. I am not impugning ARDA's "credibility", I am merely noting exactly who they REPRESENT --- and it surely isn't YOU!

BBB is a commercial business membership "club", which virtually any business willing to pay for membership can join. BBB has absolutely no legal authority or any real horsepower. I suppose there is some inherent value in being a repository for "complaints" that others might see and then be wary, but I'm not impressed by a "club" with no real muscle or any legal authority whatsoever. You may well have a different opinion; you asked for mine.

I would also note that when a slippery operation receives a sufficient number of unresolved BBB complaints and thereby acquires a low BBB "rating", the unsavory operation simply changes their company name in order to "create a clean slate". Still the same weasels with the same ill intent, but they may not have (...yet) managed to amass very many filed BBB complaints with their new "clean slate". When they do (and they will), they just simply "reinvent" themselves once again with a brand new name. Caveat Emptor --- Buyer Beware!

marynnb wrote:

Its not that I am reluctant to put forth time and effort, I'm just not very internet savvy and get tired easy so I cant see myself out there trying to talk to people about my timeshare. Besides that I also don't really understand what I have or the best way to use it. When it was purchased the rep told me that I could rent it out to pay maintenance fees and such but he is yet to even return any of my many calls. I checked with Ebay but even they charge and it requires some work as well and there is no guarantee that anything will get done once I pay them. I also see lots of timeshares there for $1 and I cannot even begin to fathom letting ours go for that low, heck we owe way more than that.

To address a few things in your post. First, as you have probably learned the hard way, never trust what a timeshare sales person tells you about what you purchase. Sales people are notorious for lying and telling half-truths.

Secondly, you do not have to be internet savvy to sell or give away your unit. The fact that you can post on these boards should be enough for you to try selling or giving away your unit. But before you can sell or give it away (this brings us to the third point), you have to have your mortgage paid off and your maintenance fees up-to-date. No one is going to want to take on a timeshare with a mortgage still owing on it.

Once you do pay that off, E-Bay will not be that hard. Besides, the suggestion I made to another poster was to check what similar units are selling for on E-Bay, not to list it on there. Finding out what similar units are selling for can give you a good idea what to list yours for. So if you see similar units selling for a dollar or maybe $100, don't go fantasizing about selling yours for tens of thousands of dollars.

One other important point (probably the most important) is to never, ever pay anyone a large, upfront fee to sell, rent out, market, or "cancel" your timeshare as that is usually, if not always, a scam. You might be receiving offers of things (whether by unexpected telemarketing calls or spam e-mail) like selling your unit or, for someone in your predicament as you have pointed out, magically cancelling your mortgage and your contract. Don't fall for any of these.

marynnb wrote:

Makes perfect sense about ARDA I had never thought about it like that. And as for Better Business Bureau I totally agree. I think they just extort companies and mislead people so rarely do I go off of what the BBB says or recommends even less now that I know they are not a government agency. Thank you for your knowledge and time.

In all fairness, I do not really believe that BBB actually "extorts" businesses in any way. Businesses voluntarily CHOOSE to pay to join BBB, largely because they believe it to be good for their "image" to display that BBB "logo" on their door, web site, ads, etc. It is astute of you to realize that many (...maybe even most) people mistakenly believe that BBB is somehow "government-associated"; it is NOT and it never was --- not in ANY way.

BBB is essentially a membership dues-supported "club" which commercial business may choose to join to enhance their image. BBB membership may help to create an aura of respectability --- but little else. BBB has absolutely NO legal authority or ANY "horsepower" of ANY kind. BBB accepts and reports "complaints" about businesses and BBB "rates" businesses based upon whether or not those complaints ever get satisfactorily resolved. That's all well and good, but it is also basically the FULL extent of the BBB's ability.

marynnb wrote:

I also see lots of timeshares there for $1 and I cannot even begin to fathom letting ours go for that low, heck we owe way more than that.

I was NOT aware that there is apparently still an unpaid loan debt associated with your timeshare; you did not previously disclose or mention that highly relevant fact. This new information changes the picture (and my previous feedback) considerably, since it is extremely difficult (virtually impossible, actually) to find anyone willing to take over someone else's timeshare debt obligation --- particularly when people can instead, with relative ease, find timeshares which are already owned free and clear being offered for peanuts, or even for free, by owners who just want to stop paying maintenance fees.

I wish you luck, but you have a steeply uphill climb ahead until / unless the loan debt associated with your timeshare is first satisfied. You will only further compound your problem if you (...very unwisely) decide to waste money on ANY "upfront fee" entity.

Yes! The same thing happened to us. We are upset with ourselves for falling for this scam. Have you been able to get compensation from them?