Manhattan Club Lawsuit

John - the reason I made reference to a person not paying his/her property taxes or mortgage is because remarks had been made that every timeshare owner should stop paying their assessments. We have seen from some posters on this site that some have never encountered a problem getting the use of their week. I paid more to have a penthouse "fixed" week and that has always been made available to me - the other penthouse week is a "flex " week and I have had problems getting the use of it So - I'm thinking that those who bought a fixed week have probably not encountered a problem obtaining use of their week. They may have an objection to having their assessments increased each year, as I certainly do, but as has been stated here, there are owners who have no problem paying those increased assessments. I just don't think it is wise to encourage people to stop paying their assessments. That person could open himself up to legal exposure with possible damages by urging other timeshare owners to breach their contractual obligations. That's called "third party contractual interference". I can see the scenario where enough owners took the advice and ceased paying their assessments, TMC revenues plummet so bills cannot be paid, the building goes into foreclosure, and those Manhattan Club owners who continued to pay their maintenance fees and never encountered a problem using their weeks end up losing their entire investment. A shrewd attorney might represent them in an action against that person or persons who encouraged everyone to cease paying their assessments. I think Zimmerman, by pursuing each case on its own merits, has a better chance of succeeding than for us to just cease paying and walk away from our "investment" . The property with its location is just too valuable to do that.

Joseph - 100% in agreement with you and Chris. There are definitely plants here and others not on our side who are following our postings.

fellow TMC owners, that i am aware of, we have a new management team by the name of BLUEGREEN.

your interest is directed to the following CONSUMER AFFAIRS' site. copy and paste it. keep scrolling to the end of each page then click NEXT until you see all 577 comments (mostly complaints.)

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/bluegreen.html

these comments seem to mirror the TMC experiences we all have witnessed and are now plagued with.

your thoughts..................

Gary-- I don't consider my purchase and investment. It even so states in the documents that you signed. Why should I go to a five star hotel, and pay the tax. The Manhattan club is in a great location. I have always found my sweet clean and well-maintained. I do not fault the people who signed up with Zimmerman. If I had been unable to use my time, I probably would have signed up also. I am fortunate that I can sign up well in advance. I have never ever had a problem getting the time I want. I wish the people involved in the lawsuit with Zimmerman the best of luck. I know that it is an emotional issue. Just don't demonize those with whom you disagree. I almost forgot-- parking is only $35,00 per night.

garyp151 wrote:

Bill, don’t u realize u can rent a 5 star hotel with all the extras at the price we are paying from our maintenance fees.Don’t forget we also bought the unit yet the value of our timeshare is worthless. It’s kind of laughable that the maintenance fee went up 500%. This by far was the worst investment I have ever made and will never buy another timeshare. Do I use my timeshare? Yes and enjoy it but the cost is not worth it. I use it otherwise I’m just throwing money out the window. I’ve owned it for 18 years and this is my first time considering not paying the fee. Yes I also joined Zimmerman lawsuit because I’m tired of sitting back and waiting for compensation or some sort of justice. I am no lawyer however I feel this is our last option before I walk away from this investment.

to all LEGITIMATE TMC OWNERS who have been victimized and defrauded by TMC:

it is obviously clear that TMC "PLANTS" on this forum are showing definite transparency. at first, there were suspicions. now, it's nearly impossible to miss them. i strongly agree with gail.

also, and i again quote joseph m, "It is for that reason, I believe all that have joined with Zimmerman, should keep their cards "close to the vest" and do not divulge any gratuitous info.. Any information, no matter how insignificant, may be substantive." this is directly related to the contents of comments we post on redweek.com, THE MANHATTAN CLUB LAWSUIT, regardless of any affiliation with mr zimmerman's lawsuit. keep any strategic information as secret and mute as possible. hint only broadly at what steps one takes to remedy our disdainful situation. i learned a valuable lesson from joseph m.!!!

Be honest Chris V. Are you talking about me? If so, you are wrong. I am not a plant. I am an owner who enjoys his time in Manhattan. It looks like paranoia is setting in.

To william If after years of outrageous abuse fully documented by AG and the theft of our property and turning it into a hotel and pocketing of the income, the destruction of the value of our investment to the point many wish to give it away for free. All under the watch of TMC Eichner management sure seems like we have grounds to feel paranoid when some vigorously defend the status quo as this entire building is slowly being shifted perhaps remarked to another company once some sell out for $100 But I thank you for correcting those who refuse to go the way of the titanic by reminding us how wonderful it is that the garage can make money letting us park there for $35!!!!!! I guess it’s fine that we control nothing , pay $460 per night IF they are nice enough to let us if we ask a year ahead, while anyone can get reservations on line for $275. You seem choose to ignore the theft of your entire investment rather than speaking up and fighting these bastards. I support free speech and positive opinions but unless people can come forward with a plan to regain control of OUR club the defense of the status quo based upon cheap parking seems either delusional or suspicious While we may be a bit paranoid how can anyone accept the clear evidence that all owners have and continue to be victimized Zimmerman suit seems the last and only chance for us. Enough mental bull. Pay the silly fees or not but DO something

Enough wasted time on this subject. Let’s roll or enjoy your trip on the Titanic

Yesterday (May 10) I saw 1 bdrm 2 bath suites available for two nights, May 11 & 12 for $199CAD on hotels.com. That is $143 USD/night! This was last minute bookings. I guess they couldn't fill the rooms. It doesn't get much lower than that. BTW the full price of parking at the garage across the street from TMC is $45 per day, so saving $10 per day is not a lot in the whole scheme of things.

Sidney,

Well said!!!!

voice your comments/opinions on CONSUMER AFFAIRS. write a review of TMC.

copy and paste the web site below, and send a clear message.

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04

I haven't posted in 4-5 months, but haven't deleted the thread in the hope that something useful might be posted. I certainly hope MC staff read this thread, not because much of value is posted but because why should we be the only ones to suffer?

In 8 years, there have been 5500 posts. I am confident that 5000 have been placed by a core group of 50 or less, with half the volume being placed by one individual. This is out of roughly 15,000 owners. I really wish that RedWeek would tell us how many unique posters there have been.

Understanding that the Eichner group wrote all the rules in their favor and abused them further does not change the fact that a settlement between the Eichner Group and the NY AG's Office has already been reached. There is no "class action suit" and since JMZ is bringing individual suits based on individual claims and merits, I'm not sure any precedent will be established if he does win one or more suits. Despite the claim recently made here, even Irene is not yet victorious. According to her post, the Eichner group has offered her a settlement, which is probably a nuisance payment less than their continued cost of representation.

If you have a lawyer - speaking to people on this thread - let him/her do your representation. If you don't have an attorney, there is nothing new here that hasn't already been said and argued over ten times already. Blue Green may have a shaky reputation elsewhere, but their role at the MC is still an unknown.

Here's my take: this thread is mostly the blind leading the blind. There is no moderator, so there is no limit on whatever is claimed. People make assertions and misrepresentations, call each other names and act like keyboard commandos. There are never corrections, so anything posted - right or wrong - stays here forever. If you need legal advice, talk to an attorney. JMZ is likely to be most familiar with the situation at the MC. His contact info is all over this thread. But if you need real advice on matters like an estate or whether or to pay your maintenance fees it will cost you money out of pocket if you want a qualified professional because "contingency fees" only make sense for an attorney when you bring a lawsuit for monetary damages that he thinks he can win.

Happy posting!

I have always dutifully paid my dues since TMC began in the 90's. My units each had maintenance fees of $795/yr. My most recent bill is $3,089 per unit! This is the first time I'm seriously thinking of not paying my fees. Have been told that I will incur high late fees...which concerns me, of course. I've never stayed at TMC because I live only about 20 miles north of the club. I purchased it because I was sold on the idea of use of the big gym, the meeting rooms for free except a $15 clean-up fee...and I could always bank with RCI. The big clincher was that they were determined to always keep the price UP...that's why TMC has "first rights of approval on possible sales...meaning that they get to buy it." The rest you all know: the gym became tiny and owners could no longer access it except during stays there, the meeting rooms cost $300-400 to rent, etc., etc. I've read that many of you are no longer paying your maintenance fees. Have there been terrible repercussions for doing so? Thanks.

hello nathan,

you have managed to put down most of us who are trying to right some wrongs as best we can, regarding TMC. sorry, nate, but you're barking up the wrong tree. we will continue to move forward and prevail, albeit with your discouraging words. at the end of the day, even you will reap the benefits of our hard work and persistence. so sit back and watch others of us all continue plodding toward a victorious new day. at that point, maybe we'll all get together on the TMC 26th floor lounge for a victory drink.............on you.

most of us, after reading your current post, will now probably decline reading further than "nathan z" should you decide to put us down again in future postings.

happy day to you. perhaps your discouraging words will encourage and prompt us to work even harder toward fair and reasonable treatment from TMC. we have additional and undisclosed legal plans other than those you disparage, so keep reading this thread. avoid commenting more unless it's truly creative and may help us all to work towards an equitable solution for all of us.

nathanz2 wrote:

I haven't posted in 4-5 months, but haven't deleted the thread in the hope that something useful might be posted. I certainly hope MC staff read this thread, not because much of value is posted but because why should we be the only ones to suffer?

In 8 years, there have been 5500 posts. I am confident that 5000 have been placed by a core group of 50 or less, with half the volume being placed by one individual. This is out of roughly 15,000 owners. I really wish that RedWeek would tell us how many unique posters there have been.

Understanding that the Eichner group wrote all the rules in their favor and abused them further does not change the fact that a settlement between the Eichner Group and the NY AG's Office has already been reached. There is no "class action suit" and since JMZ is bringing individual suits based on individual claims and merits, I'm not sure any precedent will be established if he does win one or more suits. Despite the claim recently made here, even Irene is not yet victorious. According to her post, the Eichner group has offered her a settlement, which is probably a nuisance payment less than their continued cost of representation.

If you have a lawyer - speaking to people on this thread - let him/her do your representation. If you don't have an attorney, there is nothing new here that hasn't already been said and argued over ten times already. Blue Green may have a shaky reputation elsewhere, but their role at the MC is still an unknown.

Here's my take: this thread is mostly the blind leading the blind. There is no moderator, so there is no limit on whatever is claimed. People make assertions and misrepresentations, call each other names and act like keyboard commandos. There are never corrections, so anything posted - right or wrong - stays here forever. If you need legal advice, talk to an attorney. JMZ is likely to be most familiar with the situation at the MC. His contact info is all over this thread. But if you need real advice on matters like an estate or whether or to pay your maintenance fees it will cost you money out of pocket if you want a qualified professional because "contingency fees" only make sense for an attorney when you bring a lawsuit for monetary damages that he thinks he can win.

Happy posting!

With many people not paying maintenance fees, there will obviously be many empty rooms frequently.. When the powers that be see empty rooms for the next two nights, doesn't it make sense for them to offer them to the public at discount rates? Don't we all purchase things on sale? Aren't many things put on sale when expiration dates are near? TMC does many questionable things, but lets not get carried away looking for things behind each door and under each carpet.

william m,

the official type of THE MANHATTAN CLUB entity is clearly a TIMESHARE, NOT HOTEL. those suites advertised on the travel web sites, like booking.com, et al, are listed as HOTEL accommodations, not timeshare entities owned by those who purchased their week (s) for mucho dinero. no, it doesn't make any sense at all to offer these spaces like hotel rooms. TMC is not upfront about anything, since suites are listed like hotel accommodations. if they list our space for rent they should call it a timeshare availability, not a hotel space similar to the sheraton or the midtown marquis. call it false advertising. on the other hand, i haven't noted too many empty suites that are available, ESPECIALLY TO OWNERS who want desired reservation time but are told they can be put on a wait list since no space is available. "wonderment" is the word that seems appropriate when the defense of TMC's tactics is clearly noted. TMC cheats and defrauds us at every turn, even after court action prohibited it from doing so. defense of its continuing defrauding of owners will not help us get these sham issues corrected at the end of the day. ".....but lets not get carried away looking for things behind each door and under each carpet".....we need to look everywhere (and not feel "carried away") when fraud is lurking EVERYWHERE at and by TMC.... "wonderment", indeed. after paying, on average, considering maintenance fees, about $450 per night as a TMC owner, isn't it very disturbing to know that a stranger/non-owner is getting the same accommodation for in some cases, less than $200 via travel websites? there's no defense for that one!

williamm465 wrote:

With many people not paying maintenance fees, there will obviously be many empty rooms frequently.. When the powers that be see empty rooms for the next two nights, doesn't it make sense for them to offer them to the public at discount rates? Don't we all purchase things on sale? Aren't many things put on sale when expiration dates are near? TMC does many questionable things, but lets not get carried away looking for things behind each door and under each carpet.

Chris,

You may do as you wish, including driving people away from this site in droves with your fact free cheerleading. How's that coalition thing working out for you? Now you want to start a letter writing campaign to a radio station consumer affairs site. Maybe they will take on your case after the AG has already settled. Anybody else think so?

You can continue replying while repeating entire conversations, doubling and tripling the length of this site, making it intimidating to and unusable by new visitors. I bet the MC appreciates that. Perhaps your group does have secret strategies. I could be wrong, but I doubt JMZ shares anything with you he isn't prepared to share with the general public. Some people seek justice; attorneys on contingency seek financial settlements; I don't know how to politely characterize someone whose oft repeated goal is "retribution."

Those who find my comments reasonable will continue to read them. They don't need your advice. Those who find your tiresome rants worth the time are free to read those as well. Personally, I don't read anything burdened with line after line of caps. That spares me many of your "contributions."

As far as my avoiding comments, no doubt this thread would benefit from having a moderator; but no one has chosen you. I suggest you take your own advice.

But where does the money go when the Manhattan Club rents out the rooms - does it go to the HOA general account or are the funds siphoned off to Eichner in some fashion? When the weeks were bought back, was Eichner getting those weeks and if so, then I can see a scenario where he says he is to get the rental monies since he would claim it was his weeks that were rented to the public?

Nathan Z,

Long personal exchanges, particularly when they are insulting, are boorish and inappropriate. Many, if not most, of the folks on this site have very legitimate grievances against TMC, irrespective of what you or some others may think. Had we been given a fully transparent and honest sales pitch at the beginning, I suspect most of us would have walked away from TMC. But we did not have the pleasure of entering into a contract with full and accurate knowledge. There lies the deceit. Yes, people are upset, but they should be. I urge you to respect the opinions of others and direct your energies toward pursuits that are more positive than denigrating other people. That would be nice and likely appreciated by one and all.

The 2020 budget shows 9.8 million in misc income , which includes transient revenue, food & beverage revenue, lounge operations, telephone revenue and other income. Who knows if this includes ALL transient revenue?

Karl,

I appreciate your point of view. There are many legitimate grievances against TMC. However nursing those grievances and refusing to acknowledge the reality that a settlement has been reached and accepted by the AG is not helpful. Excoriating the past or present AG and verbally abusing members of their staff who have attempted to help us within the limits of their authority is not productive. Whatever criminal acts may have taken place, there were no charges, no trials or convictions. I respect people's right to hold an opinion, but I am not required to respect that opinion, particularly when it is asserted as unassailable fact.

I don't know how long you have been on this thread. Ask yourself how many people have come, seen the strong language and hostile environment and moved on. If you are not part of the echo chamber you get accused of being a troll or plant. How much stronger would we be if all those folks had stayed involved?

There is an attorney working to represent the interests of those who have retained him. Let him do his work. You think my comments are boorish? Online etiquette should spare the rest of us the venting, the search for "plants," the arguing over who understands what. People are saying things about the lawsuit that no attorney would ever say. How is any of this useful?

Perhaps I haven't expressed myself to your liking. I'm sorry. I stand by my content.