Manhattan Club Lawsuit

Chris, this is my input for whatever it is worth. In order to give back your timeshare and get the $100, one must be current with maintenance fees, I do know this from my own experience. Also from a legal standpoint, (from all I have learned), even though TMC committed fraud and the settlement terms should make any contract, any of us signed, unenforceable, the legal fact is, it isn't in one's favor to not pay one's fees if you are planning to sue TMC. As I understand, two wrongs, don't make a right in the eyes of the law and contracts.

Some people have "succumbed" to the buyback as you put it because they had no choice financially. I inherited 2 timeshares, it's like having an incurable disease (and I actually have one of those). I did what I had to do, as have others. I wish some of you on this forum could refrain from criticizing and putting down people who "succumbed" as you put it and realize we all do what we have to do. You are lucky if you have the money to keep paying the fees. I don't have that money to sustain two units. I gave one back and have kept one and I pay my fees. To each his own. If I could afford to pay the fees and join the Zimmerman crowd I would, but I don't.

garyp151 wrote:

Blue Green is buying back for $100 is simple. They are increasing their inventory for basically the cost of the closing costs and then can rent out that same unit over and over again to visiting tourists. It’s a shame that owners have succumbed to their deceitful places however I understand that some owners want to rid their hands of years of non paid maintenance fees. The thought of leaving this debt to their families can become very emotional and troublesome. Hopefully John Zimmerman will find an answer other I will be on line to get rid of this awful investment for $100!!! Never should have bought into this timeshare. The old saying is try and learn by your mistakes!

hi deb,

i empathize/sympathize with any and all who are in such financial (and health) distress which has been totally exacerbated by their dealings with TMC/BLUEGREEN. i wish something of helpful substance could be offered to them. those TMC/BLUEGREEN bastards who created so much financial stress/distress must be punished by the legal form of retribution. i am currently pulling at straws. there are so many theories/choices of what we, as defrauded owners, should/shouldn't do. we need some direct and definitive answers regarding the most favorable path (s) to take to preserve our initial investments and to be reimbursed for the over-payment in light of the exponentially and highly exorbitant maintenance fees over the years. (i've owned since the early 2000s.) to me, the nonsensical buy-back "offer" FOR MANY OF US WHO ARE NOT FINANCIALLY DEVASTATED shouldn't be considered. if i used the word "succumbed"(which i don't recall doing) in the context that you describe, it wasn't my intention to disparage anyone who, for their own reasons. decided to take the buy-back. my stance is that, where possible, so many of us who remain relatively financially stable should not give in to the shabby buy-back offer. that only makes TMC/BLUEGREEN, a thieving organization, a fortune from TMC owners' give-backs, by reselling this valuable nyc property at exponentially high prices. my bottom line: i don't want ANY owners to continue to be totally defrauded by this unconscionable organization. for those of us who can hold out financially by not giving back, at this time, my opinion is that they should consider doing so unless and until a better offer becomes available. other owners need to do what is BEST FOR THEM financially and otherwise. i hope this systemically clears up any misunderstandings of the essence of what i have written in the past and what i have stated here.

deborahs528 wrote:

Some people have "succumbed" to the buyback as you put it because they had no choice financially. I inherited 2 timeshares, it's like having an incurable disease (and I actually have one of those). I did what I had to do, as have others. I wish some of you on this forum could refrain from criticizing and putting down people who "succumbed" as you put it and realize we all do what we have to do. You are lucky if you have the money to keep paying the fees. I don't have that money to sustain two units. I gave one back and have kept one and I pay my fees. To each his own. If I could afford to pay the fees and join the Zimmerman crowd I would, but I don't.

garyp151 wrote:

Blue Green is buying back for $100 is simple. They are increasing their inventory for basically the cost of the closing costs and then can rent out that same unit over and over again to visiting tourists. It’s a shame that owners have succumbed to their deceitful places however I understand that some owners want to rid their hands of years of non paid maintenance fees. The thought of leaving this debt to their families can become very emotional and troublesome. Hopefully John Zimmerman will find an answer other I will be on line to get rid of this awful investment for $100!!! Never should have bought into this timeshare. The old saying is try and learn by your mistakes!

Deborah, one does NOT have to be current with their maintenance fees to receive their $100. buyback. I believe those are the people the Manhattan Club is reaching out to first, because they can rid themselves of their debt and be out of this god-awful mess, while M/C and Bluegreen get the deeds to either rent time out or to resale to some poor sucker like we were. They were not likely to get money from people that haven't been paying for years, so at least this way they get another deed.

My assumption: If not paying maintenance fees was a good strategy, Zimmerman would have told you Chris, as a client to do so. If that were the case, many more people would withhold. I think if Zimmerman thought it was a good strategy he would have suggested it.

I feel that those who can pay bills and don't are looking for trouble. The best way to get out of a hole is not to keep digging.

Irene Smalls $25,000 Civil Court Trial Against (TMC) The Manhattan Club This Wednesday, December 11, 2019 9:30 am. New York Civil Court 111 Centre Street Room 428 (rooms sometimes change) New York, New York 10013

All interested parties and Manhattan Club Owners are cordially invited to attend. This is a public trial.

Best of luck Irene!

Zimmerman is spending time trying to get a list of owners. Pure wast of time. Why? All owners already know what is happening. The owners can make their own decision. Keep paying TMC to line their pockets and give TMC absolutely no reason to make a deal. Or, stop paying fees and cause TMC pain.

JD your wrong. Many of the owners have no idea about John Zimmerman. We need to reach out to all owners so they don’t just give away their timeshare and line TNC’s pockets!!

william m .....on the other hand, optimistically, if one keeps digging horizontally, that tunnel may lead to an escape toward a glimmer of sunlight.

for your own interest and information, perhaps you should consider joining mr zimmerman's lawsuit for thorough and first-hand knowledge of his comments, directions and strategies. i will not discuss our case to any further degree on this forum. never show the enemy your hand, OR fake it to lead them in the wrong direction. (i'm sure TMC/BLUEGREEN notes the contents of this redweek forum regularly seeking ways to challenge any strategies we're working on) do you really enjoy having been defrauded, and continue to accept that by paying the exponentially exorbitant maintenance fees? i realize you enjoy being at TMC, as do i. read into the following as you will: i have stayed in my one-bedroom suite twice this year. i have not been able to stay in my penthouse.

i agree that TMC is incredibly located, and well kept, except for many suites that are in dire need of updating. i have become friendly with many staff members who welcome my wife and me by name when we arrive there. but since purchase inception, when we were promised minimal maintenance fee increases by the sales staff, thse fees are up by nearly 500%. do you really accept that as "minimal?" you probably compare similar nyc accommodations' cost per night with TMC's. that would be acceptable if you were comparing eggs to eggs. keep in mind the sales staff's promise about maintenance fees AND the fact that TMC was sold to us as a TIMESHARE. that's like comparing eggs to tangerines.

are we close to being "on the same page", at least by the comparisons noted?

williamm465 wrote:

My assumption: If not paying maintenance fees was a good strategy, Zimmerman would have told you Chris, as a client to do so. If that were the case, many more people would withhold. I think if Zimmerman thought it was a good strategy he would have suggested it.

I feel that those who can pay bills and don't are looking for trouble. The best way to get out of a hole is not to keep digging.

john d,

your quote: "All owners already know what is happening"

that is not so. keep in mind, there are 14 to 18,000 TMC owners. they are all not aware of the fraud, sham, thievery+ having been and still being perpetrated by TMC and now its partner in crime, BLUEGREEN. if the number of contributors to this forum and that of yahoo is considered, my estimate is that there are about 1 to 2,000 owners that are aware of our predicament. mr zimmerman's goal of obtaining the list of owners and their contact information will be of value to our case. it's hardly a "Pure wast of time." doesn't that make some sense? also, be aware that the court will not simply hand over the TMC owners' list to attorney zimmerman indiscriminately; its use (especially concerning privacy issues) will be closely controlled and monitored by the court.

johnd2105 wrote:

Zimmerman is spending time trying to get a list of owners. Pure wast of time. Why? All owners already know what is happening. The owners can make their own decision. Keep paying TMC to line their pockets and give TMC absolutely no reason to make a deal. Or, stop paying fees and cause TMC pain.

As I have stated previously, the TMC owners list is not anything like an owners list for a club or a condominium complex. In a club or a condo you know all or almost all of the members. They are your friends and neighbors. You socialize together, you laugh together, you cry together, you help each other out when necessary,... Do I want the 18,000 owners of TMC to have my personal information? Do I want Mr. Zimmerman to have it? Do I want people with whom I might disagree calling me or emailing me. The potential for abuse is huge.

If there is something I don't understand about the request for an owner's list I don't understand, I would appreciate being enlightened. How will it be used? What are the restrictions?

Chris, we are on the same page for the most part. I paid too much but I did it for reasons previously stated. I realize I will not be entitled to any refund of my purchase price as I use all of my time. A reduction in maintenance fees would be nice. I don't think there can be a reduction for some and not all.

I know a little bit about Bluegreen. I don't think they are as bad as some say. I am willing to give them a chance.

chrisv126 wrote:

john d,

your quote: "All owners already know what is happening"

that is not so. keep in mind, there are 14 to 18,000 TMC owners. they are all not aware of the fraud, sham, thievery+ having been and still being perpetrated by TMC and now its partner in crime, BLUEGREEN. if the number of contributors to this forum and that of yahoo is considered, my estimate is that there are about 1 to 2,000 owners that are aware of our predicament. mr zimmerman's goal of obtaining the list of will be of value to our case. it's hardly a "Pure wast of time." doesn't that make some sense?

johnd2105 wrote:

Zimmerman is spending time trying to get a list of owners. Pure wast of time. Why? All owners already know what is happening. The owners can make their own decision. Keep paying TMC to line their pockets and give TMC absolutely no reason to make a deal. Or, stop paying fees and cause TMC pain.

william m,

do you realize that an owners' list would not simply be handed to mr zimmerman or his plaintiff by the court? there would be court-directed terms for its use in order to protect owners' privacy. the issue of privacy has become prime these days, and it's the court's duty to protect it.

why would you think that the plaintiff or mr zimmerman would be handed carte blanche to use the owners' list any way they wished.? the court would not allow that. there would be close, court-appointed supervision of how, when, where and for what purpose this list would be used.

we've had this type of go-'round in the past. you hang on the fact that you like TMC and continue to use it. (we agree that far.) however, you seem not to take into consideration that you and about 17,999 other owners have been shammed and defrauded at purchase time and the and shamming and fraud continue via the exorbitant maintenance fees charged for years (since the time each of us first made the mistake of purchasing this albatross.) no one should be criticized for their concern and caring if he/she is the brunt of the thievery by TMC and its new partner BLUEGREEN. it appears you accept the exponentially high maintenance fees as a fact that cannot nor should not be disputed. most other TMC owners don't buy that. many owners who are aware of this fraud want to combat it legally via lawsuits in our courts. (others don't care or are unaware of this fraud, ergo the quest for the owners' list per court permission by attiorney zimmeman.) unfortunately, and for their own legitimate reasons, others want/need to divest themselves of TMC ownershIp to eliminate the overly-burdensome and continually rising maintenance fees. don't you see that as regrettably unfortunate and, for the most part, avoidable? these people will have lost their very costly purchase price, many upwards of $30 to 80,000 or more because of the financial distress caused by TMC. this may not describe your financial situation and how you prefer to expend your fortune. fine, but respect the issues that others have presented in this forum regarding the outrageous, illegitimate and fraudulent actions of TMC and the distress they've caused many of us.

additionally, if there would be a maintenance fee reduction, it would be across the board if that issue is monitored fairly and correctly. i urge you to check out BLUEGREEEN via google or another service. their track record is questionable, at best. yes, they are "as bad as some say." i will not even hint at offering them the benefit of the doubt. they're from the same fabric as TMC/EICHNER.

williamm465 wrote:

As I have stated previously, the TMC owners list is not anything like an owners list for a club or a condominium complex. In a club or a condo you know all or almost all of the members. They are your friends and neighbors. You socialize together, you laugh together, you cry together, you help each other out when necessary,... Do I want the 18,000 owners of TMC to have my personal information? Do I want Mr. Zimmerman to have it? Do I want people with whom I might disagree calling me or emailing me. The potential for abuse is huge.

If there is something I don't understand about the request for an owner's list I don't understand, I would appreciate being enlightened. How will it be used? What are the restrictions?

Chris, we are on the same page for the most part. I paid too much but I did it for reasons previously stated. I realize I will not be entitled to any refund of my purchase price as I use all of my time. A reduction in maintenance fees would be nice. I don't think there can be a reduction for some and not all.

I know a little bit about Bluegreen . I don't think they are as bad as some say. I am willing to give them a chance.

chrisv126 wrote:

john d,

your quote: "All owners already know what is happening"

that is not so. keep in mind, there are 14 to 18,000 TMC owners. they are all not aware of the fraud, sham, thievery+ having been and still being perpetrated by TMC and now its partner in crime, BLUEGREEN. if the number of contributors to this forum and that of yahoo is considered, my estimate is that there are about 1 to 2,000 owners that are aware of our predicament. mr zimmerman's goal of obtaining the list of will be of value to our case. it's hardly a "Pure wast of time." doesn't that make some sense?

johnd2105 wrote:

Zimmerman is spending time trying to get a list of owners. Pure wast of time. Why? All owners already know what is happening. The owners can make their own decision. Keep paying TMC to line their pockets and give TMC absolutely no reason to make a deal. Or, stop paying fees and cause TMC pain.

J. D. - you are 100% wrong - the greater majority of Manhattan Club timeshare owners know nothing about what is going on as over the past few years, I have spoken to a number of owners - both in the lounge and several on one of the outside terraces. None or them and I repeat, not a single one of them knew anything about this. They knew nothing about the A. G. conclusion - nothing about the Zimmerman litigation. So - please explain to me how you think all the owners would know. Is there some secret web site that automatically informs all the owners of what is happening litigation wise? Cause, I sure haven't heard of it. How did you get your information?

hi gail,

we're obviously on the same page concerning the number of TMC owners who are and ARE NOT aware of the TMC (AND NOW, TORN FROM THE SAME FABRIC......BLUEGREEN) fraud and shams that most owners have endured over the years. this includes the current, exponentially exorbitant maintenance fees, another fraudulent burden to bear. some TMC owners are so financially distressed and therefore are willing to forego their initial TMC purchase cost to rid themselves of this financially draining albatross. that's pathetic. zimmeman needs the owners' list/contact information permitted by the court for his clients. the list will be monitored by the court concerning the how, when and under what circumstances the list will be used.. protecting owners' privacy is a major concern. that will be an addressed issue and it should not prevent zimmerman from obtaining the list.

fyi, i have spoken to TMC owner/guests from other parts of the usa and from abroad. 99.99% were not aware of TMC fraud/sham legal issues. they were shocked as most of them assumed that this was the mode of timeshare ownership. it was a sad awakening for them.

tulipblossom wrote:

J. D. - you are 100% wrong - the greater majority of Manhattan Club timeshare owners know nothing about what is going on as over the past few years, I have spoken to a number of owners - both in the lounge and several on one of the outside terraces. None or them and I repeat, not a single one of them knew anything about this. They knew nothing about the A. G. conclusion - nothing about the Zimmerman litigation. So - please explain to me how you think all the owners would know. Is there some secret web site that automatically informs all the owners of what is happening litigation wise? Cause, I sure haven't heard of it. How did you get your information?

New York County Civil Court / Part -Part 11T CV-016592-18/NY - IRENE SMALLS vs. IAN BRUCE EICHNER New York Civil Court 111 Centre Street, NY. NY. 10013 Room 325 or 428

Wishing you all the best tomorrow.....

Lots of luck Irene. Your case is important to all TMC owners.

How did it go today Irene!?

Chris V, I read your response to me twice and it tired me out.

If I understand you correctly, if Zimmerman is successful in obtaining an owners list, he will have to go to court each time he wants to use it.

Three questions. 1- Am I correct? 2- Is the $1250 going to cover all of this activity? 3- Has Zimmerman mentioned additional costs?