Rookie going to Orlando

First i want to say Hello to all and thanks for all that respond. I have been reading the forums all day practically. I am going to Orlando, on a Promotion that includes a presentation, in about three weeks, I am glad i found this site before i went, It has been real nice reading. I have been to Orlando before and did the same thing as most of us and bought a timeshare back in 95, but had to sell it three years later because of divorce. Actually going to the same resort., I checked out that resort for some sales here and i see them going minimum 400.00 dollars, i think i bought it back then for 13000. Sorry for the rambling, Here is the question, When i was making reservations the lady told me to becareful with Points buying? I did not understand, I asked her it is not like this condo for XXX amount?? She said that now they do points? Can someone explain points deeling with this circumstance? Thanks Ramon

ramonr13 states / asks: Re: >> I am going to Orlando, on a Promotion that includes a presentation, in about three weeks <<

First, I will state what you may well already know -- that most timeshares in overbuilt Orlando are selling in the resale market for about a "dime a dozen" right now. Accordingly, with no disrespect intended, you would be a FOOL to buy directly from a developer these days at their grossly inflated prices when there is just SO much available out in the resale market for Orlando, with much of it selling for (literally) next to nothing. "Presentation" means high pressure sales tactics by hungry and deceitful sharks. Don't make the mistake of becoming their breakfast. Caveat Emptor --- BUYER BEWARE! ===========================================

Re: >> When i was making reservations the lady told me to becareful with Points buying? I did not understand <<

...Likely neither does she. The resort with which she is affiliated is likely NOT a "points" resort in the first place, so she is most likely "trained and programmed" to automatically speak negatively about points, despite actually knowing nothing about them. If she was a points expert, she most likely wouldn't be working in telephone reservations...

There are MANY forms and flavors of points and FAR too many very different points programs to go into here in detail (e.g., RCI, Hilton, Sunterra/Diamond, Wyndham --- the list goes on and on). They differ considerably from one another. NONE of them are bad, but ALL of them require a lot of homework and study (...by you, BEFORE you buy) in order to fully understand all the details and differences in currency, advance reservation windows, home resort reservation policies, carry over policy for unused points from one year to the next, resale or rental restrictions, maintenance fee structure (possibly "laddered" with the number of points owned) --- and all of the other assorted terms and conditions associated with each and every individual points program. Unfortunately, there is NO simple or easy "one size fits all" answer for you. Read and study. Then read and study more. Then read and study some more still before you even THINK about pulling out that checkbook or credit card. Good luck.

ken1193 wrote:

...Likely neither does she. The resort with which she is affiliated is likely NOT a "points" resort in the first place ...

I didn't see where the op mentioned what resort he was referring to .... am I missing something? We really don't know if it's a points resort or not? Otherwise, good advice as there are many points systems out there.

jayjay: Re: >> I didn't see where the op mentioned what resort he was referring to .... am I missing something? <<

The OP only mentioned Orlando as the location, not any specific resort. It did not matter (to me), as my input was intended to be universally applicable to ANY and EVERY resort in Orlando. ================================================

Re: >> We really don't know if it's a points resort or not?<<

No, clearly we don't. I had actually assumed for the purposes of discussion (and to be specifically responsive to the points portion of the OP inquiry) that the unidentified facility most likely is NOT a points resort, since the "reservation lady" seems to have offered the OP some cautionary input about "points". A resort representative rarely offers cautionary words about their own product; it's usually the "other guys" about whom they make insinuations. It's a typical sales ploy, actually; attempting to "manufacture instant credibility" by just subtly implying that "We're the good guys in the white hats --- we're not those "other guys"...

Thanks for the info, I am going to Summer bay Resort in Orlando, If i remember back when, I bought for 13 gran, and it was a deed, Now for the lady, I thought she was pretty nice, I mean she told me not to buy points because she did it and did not work out good for her in Orlando, but she said in Daytona it was okay. Needless to say after reading I am not planning to buy one, I will buy one here after talk to the wife, of course, the only thing i see a possible problem, since i am semi young 40's and with a child on the way and another one in 7th grade, I would need a week during the summer, so all of us can go. I have not seen many weeks during the summer for resale or it might be me not looking deep into this yet.

ramonr13 Re: >> Thanks for the info, I am going to Summer bay Resort in Orlando, If i remember back when, I bought for 13 gran, and it was a deed...<<

I don't know this resort at all and I don't claim to, but I DO seem to vaguely recall someone on another timeshare site indicating that owners of deeded weeks at Summer Bay could (but didn't necessarily HAVE to) CONVERT their "weeks" ownership to RCI points (for a fee, of course --- of several thousand additional dollars, for something they ALREADY own). So, it could well be at present, that ownerships at Summer Bay currently include BOTH weeks and RCI points ownerships. =============================================

Re: >> she told me not to buy points because she did it and did not work out good for her in Orlando, but she said in Daytona it was okay.<<

This is a puzzling statement since location really has very little to do with the value of a RCI POINTS ownership. On the contrary, one of the (alleged) benefits of RCI points ownership is that it is sort of a form of "currency" --- an annual points allocation into your "account", which you can "spend" virtually anywhere within that particular points system, regardless of where or what your home resort is. You have annual points allotted to you to "spend" and you can spend them anywhere there is space available for you to do so, even for less than 7 days. The key, operative phrase with RCI, of course, is "space available"... =============================================

Re: >> I have not seen many weeks during the summer for resale or it might be me not looking deep into this yet.<<

I think that once you research more deeply into the resale market, you will likely soon discover that you can find and buy virtually ANY week you want in Orlando --- and probably for just about peanuts. Good luck at the "presentation". You are going to get cajoled, serenaded, lied to, pressured --- maybe even insulted --- in their predatory efforts to get you to buy direct from them while you are there. If you fall into that trap, please don't say later that you weren't warned. Remember, there really are no "victims" --- only VOLUNTEERS!

ken1193 ramonr13 Re: >> Thanks for the info, I am going to Summer bay Resort in Orlando, If i remember back when, I bought for 13 gran, and it was a deed...<<

I don't know this resort at all and I don't claim to, but I DO seem to vaguely recall someone on another timeshare site indicating that owners of deeded weeks at Summer Bay could (but didn't necessarily HAVE to) CONVERT their "weeks" ownership to RCI points (for a fee, of course --- of several thousand additional dollars, for something they ALREADY own). So, it could well be at present, that ownerships at Summer Bay currently include BOTH weeks and RCI points ownerships. =============================================

Re: >> she told me not to buy points because she did it and did not work out good for her in Orlando, but she said in Daytona it was okay.<<

This is a puzzling statement since location really has very little to do with the value of a RCI POINTS ownership. On the contrary, one of the (alleged) benefits of RCI points ownership is that it is sort of a form of "currency" --- an annual points allocation into your "account", which you can "spend" virtually anywhere within that particular points system, regardless of where or what your home resort is. You have annual points allotted to you to "spend" and you can spend them anywhere there is space available for you to do so, even for less than 7 days. The key, operative phrase with RCI, of course, is "space available"... =============================================

Re: >> I have not seen many weeks during the summer for resale or it might be me not looking deep into this yet.<<

I think that once you research more deeply into the resale market, you will likely soon discover that you can find and buy virtually ANY week you want in Orlando --- and probably for just about peanuts. Good luck at the "presentation". You are going to get cajoled, serenaded, lied to, pressured --- maybe even insulted --- in their predatory efforts to get you to buy direct from them while you are there. If you fall into that trap, please don't say later that you weren't warned. Remember, there really are no "victims" --- there are only VOLUNTEERS!

You are right that Summer Bay is now an RCI Points resort chain. We have visited them in Orlando and it is quite nice. Mention was made somewhere above that old owners could convert to RCI Points for a fairly hefty fee. However, this inquirer sold his original ownership and would be buying into Points directly--if he want to.

In that case, he should indeed buy at the location he plans to visit most of the time. Otherwise, he will be paying an exchange fee every time he goes anywhere via RCI Points. Admittedly, this is lower than the RCI Weeks exchange fee and the flexibility is greater but, personally, we much prefer owning in a multi-resort points system that allows us to exchange within that system with NO exchange fee in addition to being able to use RCI or Interval Weeks when necessary to reach additional locations. However, this type of resort points bought on the resale market sometimes do not count toward VIP levels based on the number of Developer points one owns--and the higher the VIP ownership level, the earlier one is often allowed to make a reservation for hard to get dates. The Devil is in the details, so ask lots of questions about the specific resort/chain under consideration.

The need to vacation only in the summer might make a Fixed Week attractive to Ramon if he can locate some resort he really likes on the resale market. A Red Season Floating week might also work, giving him a little additional flexibility but reducing the competition for summer weeks. Of course, he could still make standard exchanges as needed through RCI etc. The better his owned resort, the better the possible exchanges. MD

adahiscout stated in relevant part: >> However, this type of resort points bought on the resale market sometimes do not count toward VIP levels based on the number of Developer points one owns--and the higher the VIP ownership level, the earlier one is often allowed to make a reservation for hard to get dates.<< =============================================== Ramon: FYI, this specific quoted portion of the above post (and I am NOT peddling or endorsing the RCI Points system in mentioning this detail), references some system *OTHER THAN* RCI Points. I own a RCI Points week (just for the points --- I have never actually been to my home resort and I don't ever plan to), but RCI Points has no (and has never had) any distinctions at all between developer and resale purchases. RCI Points has no "VIP, Elite, Gold, President's Club, etc." status or strata --- all RCI points accounts are equal in terms of accessing weeks at other resorts. Only the actual number of points associated with a purchase varies, whether that purchase is via resale market or developer direct. SPACE AVAILABILITY of what you're looking to book into is generally the one and only (and unfortunately common) obstacle with RCI. The devil is indeed always in the details and, as I had suggested previously, read and learn. Then read and learn and research more --- BEFORE purchasing.

Thanks guy but you guys are right, I better do some more research, but Me and my wife already are looking on the internet for some resales, so we will not buy their, This point thing is confusing, Let me see if i get the jist of it, If i buy their, I will buy points for x amount of money, and this will guarantee me what? A week their, or in their system? due to availability? Another question Have anyone of you guys been treated badly after you said no to a presentation?

ramonr13 wrote:

Thanks guy but you guys are right, I better do some more research, but Me and my wife already are looking on the internet for some resales, so we will not buy their, This point thing is confusing, Let me see if i get the jist of it, If i buy their, I will buy points for x amount of money, and this will guarantee me what? A week their, or in their system? due to availability? Another question Have anyone of you guys been treated badly after you said no to a presentation?

Ramon: I have never been to (and will never go to) a sales presentation, no matter what "free gifts" or "promotions" they might offer. Unless they are going to reimburse me for my very valuable time, in cash or certified check, at a rate of at least $180.00 per hour, then they have nothing to offer in which I am the least bit interested. I have heard far too many sales presentation horror stories over the past 25 years of my timeshare ownership and I want no part of these deceitful, lying, sales-weasel parasites. I simply have no patience for deceit. The sales weasels will lie and misrepresent facts to you and if you ultimately say "NO", they may then opt to insult you; outright calling you a "mooch" for just "enduring" the presentation for whatever "free gift" they had offered, or wasting their time and denying them the chance to "feed their family", etc., etc., blah, blah, blah. Some people characterize the sales presentation experience as one of "Buy or Cry", but I have not subjected myself to this particular indignity at any time during my 25 years of timeshare ownership, so I can only report on the representations of many others more willing to subject themselves to the "sales presentation experience". Just be ready, the big pitch with all of its assorted half-truths is definitely coming your way...

As far as a RCI Points purchase goes, if you buy a "RCI points" week (at this resort or any other, whether resale or developer direct), that week will have an associated, permanent number of annually allocated RCI points. There will also be an "underlying" deeded week and you can use your points to book THAT specific, particular week at THAT particular resort (by reserving the usage a year in advance) if you choose to do so. You can also use those RCI points to book into some other RCI resort instead (if you have enough points and *IF* space is available). As a RCI Points owner, you will of course still pay an annual maintenance fee bill, just like any "weeks" owner.

My suggestion is to look to purchase the week that you actually want to use, where you want to use it. If you buy some other week instead in hopes that you can somehow book the week that you REALLY want, you may very well be repeatedly disappointed, as there is no guarantee.

You might also consider instead looking for a FIXED, non-points week of your date preference at some non-points resort, thereby absolutely guaranteeing you annual access each and every year with no reservation uncertainties or any advance reservation gymnastics required. Good luck.

ken1193 wrote:

ramonr13 wrote:

Thanks guy but you guys are right, I better do some more research, but Me and my wife already are looking on the internet for some resales, so we will not buy their, This point thing is confusing, Let me see if i get the jist of it, If i buy their, I will buy points for x amount of money, and this will guarantee me what? A week their, or in their system? due to availability? Another question Have anyone of you guys been treated badly after you said no to a presentation?

Ramon: I have never been to a presentation and I will NEVER go to a presentation, no matter what "free gifts" they might offer. I have heard far too many horror stories over the past 25 years of my timeshare ownership and I want no part of these deceitful, lying, sales-weasel parasites. They will lie and misrepresent facts to you and if you ultimately say "NO", they may choose to insult you and call you a "mooch" for just "enduring" the presentation for whatever "free gift" they offered, wasting their time, denying them the chance to feed their family, etc., etc. Be ready, it's definitely coming....

As far as a RCI Points purchase goes, if you buy a "RCI points" week (at this resort or any other, whether resale or developer direct), that week will have an associated, permanent number of annually allocated RCI points. There will also be an "underlying" deeded week and you can use your points to book that specific, particular week at that particular resort (a year in advance) if you choose to do so. You can also use your RCI points to book into some other RCI resort instead (if you have enough points and as space is available). You will still pay an annual maintenance fee bill, just like any "weeks" owner. My suggestion is to look to purchase the week that you actually want to use, where you want to use it. If you buy some other week instead in hopes that you can book the week you really want, you may very well be repeatedly disappointed.

You might also consider instead looking for a FIXED, non-points week of your preference at some non-points resort, thereby absolutely guaranteeing you annual access each and every year with no reservation uncertainties or any advance reservation gymnastics required. Good luck.

I'm not sure we have ever been lied to, though not all salespeople are equally knowledgeable. If you read the owner postings you will understand that things can get pretty complicated. When one does not know the "language" of a particular organization, it is especially easy to misunderstand what has been said even if it was correct. I've run into some long time salesmen recently who have not heard of RCI's rule change which forbids renting out an exchange. They were not happy to learn that they should not be recommending that ploy anymore! Salespeople who live on their commissions are understandably not thrilled to spend hours with people determined not to purchase (but the good ones sometimes still get the sale). If they are upset (and they should know better) just smile and say, "Well, YOU invited US."

against their rules.