NEED TO RETURN TIMESHARE

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By Sabrina T.

NEED TO RETURN TIMESHARE

Hello, I need some assistance with knowing what can the timeshare companies do ( WYNDHAM LAS VEGAS) if you're in need to turn the timeshare(s) back in. We've had it for 5 years ( even and odd years) and due to finances we can't afford it any longer. I just want to make sure that 1. they can't garnish our wages and 2. ruin our credit for ever. Can you please inform what will happen. We just can no longer afford it. Its either mortage and other bills or timeshare. Timeshare is the decision because we can't live in it. Its a luxury.

HELP PLease!!!

Sabrina

Avatar for Sabrina T. Sabrina T.

9 years ago
Jun 29, 2010

By Ken C.

No "returns"...it is not that simple or easy...

sabrinat4 wrote:
I need some assistance with knowing what can the timeshare companies do ( WYNDHAM LAS VEGAS) if you're in need to turn the timeshare(s) back in. We've had it for 5 years ( even and odd years) and due to finances we can't afford it any longer. I just want to make sure that 1. they can't garnish our wages and 2. ruin our credit for ever. Can you please inform what will happen. We just can no longer afford it. Its either mortage and other bills or timeshare. Timeshare is the decision because we can't live in it. Its a luxury.
If you fail to pay your maintenance fees (a legal obligation) your ownership will ultimately be foreclosed upon and a negative report WILL then be formally filed with the credit reporting agencies (...but likely only AFTER you are hounded by collection agencies seeking payment of the money owed). You indicate that you "...need to turn the timeshare back in...", but it does NOT work that way --- or that easily. You have 5 years of OWNERSHIP and all the associated, legally binding obligations of ownership. It's NOT an option to just choose to "discontinue participation", without inviting the consequences.

If there is no loan on the timeshare, you should contact Wyndham headquarters (attn; Legal Dept.) in Orlando, FL (in writing, NOT by phone) and at least formally ASK Wyndham if they will accept a "deedback", in which case you would voluntarily forfeit your ownership (and ALL of your purchase money). I know that in SOME instances, Wyndham HAS accepted "deedbacks" --- but I would have serious doubts about their being willing to do so for overbuilt Las Vegas. Nonetheless, it can't hurt to ask (in writing only --- they will NOT engage in any phone discussions about such matters).

If you still have a loan on the purchase however, all bets are off. Wyndham certainly won't consider or discuss a "deedback" if there is an outstanding purchase loan debt, since that particular debt is likely in the hands of a third party (i.e., not in Wyndham's hands).

I wish you luck, but you definitely have your work cut out for you. Las Vegas timeshares are a dime a dozen and just "turning it back in" is not likely to be an available option, just as bringing a car or a boat back 5 years after purchase to "turn it back in" is not an available option.

Last edit by ken1193 on Jun 30, 2010 10:35 AM.

Avatar for Ken C. Ken C.

9 years ago
Jun 30, 2010

By Carvan A.

NEED TO RETURN TIMESHARE

Sabrina,

I totally agree with Ken but will add some additional thoughts in response to your question concerning "what can the timeshare companies do" if you walk away from your obligation.

Walking away is a step not to be taken lightly because as Ken has stated so well it will have a lasting adverse impact on your credit rating meaning the obtaining of credit will be difficult if not impossible and the interest rates charged will be higher when you do obtain credit.

First, you should consult an attorney if possible and if not then a consumer advocacy group to be sure you are well informed concerning your rights before you default.

There are two applicable Federal Statutes governing what any creditor (including timeshares and their collection agencies) can do. One is the FCPA (fair credit protection act) and the FDCPA (fair debt collection protection act). You should google them for more information. They were written to protect you the consumer.

Your rights under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act include:

Debt collectors may contact you only between 8 a.m. and 9 p.m. Debt collectors may not contact you at work if they know your employer disapproves Debt collectors may not harass, oppress or abuse you Debt collectors may not lie when collecting debts, such as falsely implying that you have committed a crime Debt collectors must identify themselves to you on the phone Debt collectors must stop contacting you if you ask them to in writing

The last point is very important to remember. Any collecting agency that continues to "hound you" after receiving a letter to "cease and desist" may well become the defendant in an action brought by the FTC or by you. Collection Agencies cannot legally harass or hound you. They face severe penalties including the loss of their license to do business when they violate this Federal Statute. I have seen it happen.

The FCPA is well worth reading in its entirety but for your purposes here are some highlights:

Credit reporting agencies cannot report adverse information for more than seven years with some exceptions. Foreclosures remain on your record for seven years. One exception is a bankruptcy that can remain on your report for 10 years. Judgments remain on your credit report until the governing statute of limitations expires. That is typically 10 years in most states but will vary from state to state.

Persons (defined in the act as individuals, partnerships, corporations, trusts, estates, and so on) are required to report both good and bad infomration. I have yet to see a timeshare that reported the timely payment of a maintenance fee. The Collection Agency cannot report adverse information (legally) if the timeshare did not report both good and bad payment history in "the regular and ordinary course of business". Sure some will in the hopes of not been called on it but so do some of us drive 70 in a 60 mph zones. Not everyone obeys the law but you have the right to report violators to the FTC.

You have the right to challenge any adverse information and the credit reporting agencies have 30 days to provide you with written documentation of the debt. No collection agency can produce a contract wherein you agreed to pay annual maintenance fees. That is too complicated to explain here but any attorney well versed in consumer protection statutes can explain it for you.

Wage garnishment is highly unlikely because of the nature of the debt. This is best explained by an attorney but briefly let me explain it in layman language. First, the maintenance fee debt would have to be reduced to a judgment in the jurisdiction where the timeshare is located. Several years of fees would have to be involved to even make such action financially feasible. Then, the creditor would have to abstract the judgment in your jurisdiction in order to then proceed with a writ of garnishment. Wage garnishment is prohibited in many states and you need to learn whether your state is one of these states. As a practical matter the probability of a wage garnishment is very unlikely.

Last edit by carvana on Jun 30, 2010 03:55 PM.

Avatar for Carvan A. Carvan A.

9 years ago
Jun 30, 2010

By Sabrina T.

NEED TO RETURN TIMESHARE

Thank you so much for the information. Please understand, the maintainence fees is only part of the problem we still have loans on both of the properties. We live in California and I do know that some creditors will garnish your wages but as far as timeshares don't know. Our credit is already dingged due to lates with our mortgage but that is almost resolved; we have come to an agreement with our lender, however, in order to fulfill that agreement and keep our home we have to let the timeshares GO. We pay $460.00 per month. A few years back that was a breeze but now... man I can't hardly pay utility bills let alone a timeshare. So please answer this, do you think the timeshare company will garnish our wages are just ruin our credit like a credit card or car loan? Again, thank you so much for the information.

Avatar for Sabrina T. Sabrina T.

9 years ago
Jun 30, 2010

By Ken C.

No "returns"

sabrinat4 wrote:
....the maintainence fees is only part of the problem we still have loans on both of the properties. We live in California and I do know that some creditors will garnish your wages but as far as timeshares don't know. Our credit is already dingged due to lates with our mortgage but that is almost resolved; we have come to an agreement with our lender, however, in order to fulfill that agreement and keep our home we have to let the timeshares GO.
This additional provided information now makes it clear that you actually have BOTH a purchase loan AND unpaid maintenance fees. "Letting the timeshares go" is much easier said than done since those timeshares clearly also have their own associated loan obligations.

This MIGHT mean that there are actually two separate and distinct entities here to whom you have debt obligations. If so, either one can pursue its' OWN course of action. For Wyndham, that will simply ultimately mean foreclosure on the timeshare weeks at some point. However, it could well be that Wyndham does NOT hold the note regarding your purchase loan. If that is the case, then that "other" creditor can independently pursue its' own course of action. Stated another way, you may have to deal with more than just Wyndham.

You would be well served at this point by consulting an attorney in CA. Given the complexity of your situation and the apparent co-existence of OTHER lender agreements, you should definitely seek competent, face to face legal counsel and guidance regarding a course of action.

Last edit by ken1193 on Jul 01, 2010 09:17 AM.

Avatar for Ken C. Ken C.

9 years ago
Jul 01, 2010

By Carvan A.

NEED TO RETURN TIMESHARE

"we have come to an agreement with our lender, however, in order to fulfill that agreement and keep our home we have to let the timeshares GO. We pay $460.00 per month."

You are restructuring your home loan - very common these days in California - and your lender is requiring you to "let the timeshares GO" as part of the restructuring agreement so you in effect have no choice concerning the timeshares.

Having mortgages on the timeshares does further complicate matters. There is a significant difference between a maintenance fee and a loan to purchase the timeshares. The timeshare loan is a personal obligation meaning you signed a contract (note) promising to repay the loan just as you would a credit card debt or a car loan. The loan on the timeshares is probably secured by the timeshares and the mortgagee (the lender who financed your purchase of the timeshares) will probably foreclose and take title to the timeshares. That is not all bad because it will free you of the maintenance fee issue. The downside is that you will have the foreclosure on your credit record as well as the possibility of the mortgagee going after you personally for the difference between what is obtained at the foreclosure sale and the amount you owe for the timeshares. The difference could be huge. Some states (Colorado, for example) do not allow a mortgagee to look to the mortgagor (you) for the difference between the amount recovered at the foreclosure sale and the amount owed. Very complicated issues are involved here including a conflict of state laws issue (Hawaii and California) and I agree - again with Ken - that you definitely need legal advice.

You should keep written proof that your home lender is requiring you to default on the timeshare loans. That could be helpful to you on down the road when explaining to a future credit grantor why you defaulted on the timeshare loans.

Last edit by carvana on Jul 02, 2010 12:22 PM.

Avatar for Carvan A. Carvan A.

9 years ago
Jul 02, 2010

By Spence W.

NEED TO RETURN TIMESHARE

There is a company 888-XXX-XXXX that can help call them. I know you will have to be current on fees with Wyndham and for $350 they will do the nessary paperwork to get you out of it . it will also cost you $100 for an internal transfer fee. So for a total of $450 you are done, oh what relief..

Last edit by marty8084 on Jul 06, 2010 11:17 PM.

Avatar for Spence W. Spence W.

9 years ago
Jul 05, 2010

By Sabrina T.

NEED TO RETURN TIMESHARE

Thank you. I will give them a call tomorrow.

Avatar for Sabrina T. Sabrina T.

9 years ago
Jul 05, 2010

By Ken C.

False hopes for "magical solutions" that don't really exist...

spencew4 wrote:
There is a company 888-XXX-XXXX that can help call them. I know you will have to be current on fees with Wyndham and for $350 they will do the nessary paperwork to get you out of it . it will also cost you $100 for an internal transfer fee. So for a total of $450 you are done, oh what relief..
I don't know who or what this "company" might be that "spencew4" is promoting above, but "spence" seems to have clearly failed to understand or acknowledge the previously revealed fact that there are outstanding LOANS on BOTH of the two timeshares involved here.

Whether the maintenance fees are paid up is of distantly secondary importance to resolving the outstanding purchase loan debt. There is no simple "1-800" phone call that is going to make that debt obligation just magically disappear. You need competent legal counsel, not just a toll free phone number to an unidentified, unnamed company...

Last edit by ken1193 on Jul 06, 2010 11:51 AM.

Avatar for Ken C. Ken C.

9 years ago
Jul 06, 2010

By Barbara F.

NEED TO RETURN TIMESHARE

sabrinat4 wrote:
Thank you. I will give them a call tomorrow.

Who did you CALL? NAME AND TELEPHONE NUMBER PLEASE

Avatar for Barbara F. Barbara F.

9 years ago
Jul 07, 2010

By Ken C.

No "returns" of contractual debt --- and no advertising...

barbaraf101 wrote:
Who did you CALL? NAME AND TELEPHONE NUMBER PLEASE
The name of the "anonymous company" was never provided by "spencew4" (who was improperly promoting the unnamed entity). The phone number was (quite appropriately) removed by a Moderator, since such blatant advertising is simply not allowed in the RedWeek discussion forums.

Last edit by ken1193 on Jul 07, 2010 02:31 PM.

Avatar for Ken C. Ken C.

9 years ago
Jul 07, 2010

Message deleted.

By Ruth H.

NEED TO RETURN TIMESHARE

Don't count on it. We have looked into these companies buying our time share and we have a lot of points which makes them go up far more than you stated. They wanted $6000 from us and then when we backed out of the deal on the advice of our attorney we sent notice by fax and mail by receipt. Now they will not cancel the credit card payment even after we gave them less than the three day cancellation. They claim they send a check back to you. I am waiting with baited breath to see this check but i have heard from some who didn't get theirs back. Avoid these people.

Avatar for Ruth H. Ruth H.

9 years ago
Jul 08, 2010

By Ken C.

No returns --- especially where there is contractual purchase debt...

"Sabrina" eventually revealed that there are still outstanding loans on her two timeshare weeks, in addition to unpaid maintenance fees.

NO individual or company on Planet Earth is going to TOUCH any timeshare on which there is still outstanding purchase debt. Why would they even consider doing so, with 1,300 (fully paid up) timeshares advertised on Ebay any day of the week for a dollar or less?

Last edit by ken1193 on Jul 08, 2010 03:11 PM.

Avatar for Ken C. Ken C.

9 years ago
Jul 08, 2010

By Ken C.

Not enough...

ruthh109 wrote:
They wanted $6000 from us and then when we backed out of the deal on the advice of our attorney we sent notice by fax and mail by receipt. Now they will not cancel the credit card payment even after we gave them less than the three day cancellation.
I hope that your attorney also clearly advised you to file a formal charge dispute directly with your credit card issuer. However, this action will likely succeed only if there is less than 60 days between date of the original charge and date of filing of a credit card dispute.

Last edit by ken1193 on Jul 08, 2010 03:15 PM.

Avatar for Ken C. Ken C.

9 years ago
Jul 08, 2010

By Sabrina T.

No returns --- especially where there is contractual purchase debt...

our credit is already dinged ( due to the lates with our home loan), but is it that with "deeded" times shares if you fail to pay there treated like any another unsecured loan (car or credit card)? OR is it the t/s company can come after us and possibly put a lien on our personal home or can they take our tax return? I'm really in the dark as to just how far these people can go. We really don't have the funds to get an attorney - so what are we to do. I think its a same that these companies have so much power. You can't live in these things. Its a luxury - dog on it! I'm not saying there shouldn't be any repercussions to the extent like any other unsecured loan.

Avatar for Sabrina T. Sabrina T.

9 years ago
Jul 09, 2010

By Ken C.

No returns --- especially where there is contractual purchase debt...

sabrinat4 wrote:
We really don't have the funds to get an attorney - so what are we to do. I think its a shame that these companies have so much power.
No offense intended, but you willingly and voluntarily CHOSE to enter into your particular loan contracts. It's really not at all a matter of "company power" --- it is instead a matter of legal contracts voluntarily executed between willing participants.

You indicate that you don't have the funds for an attorney, but with due respect, proceeding blindly forward without any competent CA legal advice regarding your best course(s) of action might very well prove to be much more expensive to you in the long run, particularly in view of your restructured home mortgage loan agreement. Remember, you'd merely be paying for a consultation and some advice which takes into account the terms and conditions of your assorted contractual agreements. Free input from unknown entities who have no knowledge of the terms of your various agreements, on the other hand, is NO basis upon which to make life-impacting decisions. That said, I sincerely wish you luck.

Last edit by ken1193 on Jul 10, 2010 07:16 AM.

Avatar for Ken C. Ken C.

9 years ago
Jul 10, 2010

By Thelma B.

NEED TO RETURN TIMESHARE

I would like to get rid of my timeshare at Hiawatha Manor, and I told them I would give it to them, with a quit claim and they would not accept it. It is paid off with no loan. I dont want to pay the $350.00 meintenence. My finances are very low and I just cannot afford that, with all medical bills. So, you are saying that I can let them foreclose and it would damage my credit. Is that all they can do? I realize that damageing my credit is bad, but I would think, with all the problems with Timeshares, that the creditors would overlook that. Am I wrong in my thinking?

Avatar for Thelma B. Thelma B.

8 years ago
May 05, 2011

By Lance C.

thelmab17 wrote:
So, you are saying that I can let them foreclose and it would damage my credit. Is that all they can do? I realize that damaging my credit is bad, but I would think, with all the problems with Timeshares, that the creditors would overlook that. Am I wrong in my thinking?

I'm sure some creditors would overlook that if you explained why you defaulted.

However, there are some more serious consequences. Resorts have been known to send out collection agencies. Also, there have been reports of garnishing of wages, seizing and auctioning off some of the owner's other assets, etc.

Some people have escaped these consequences and just simply had their unit foreclosed on them. That being said, would you want to chance it?

There are websites where you can advertise your timeshare to give away for free. Try those.

Avatar for Lance C. Lance C.

8 years ago
May 06, 2011

By Carvan A.

Lancec, you indicate "resorts have been known to send out collection agencies". You and others should be aware that collection agencies can only call you - that is, they are not sent out. You can request that all calls "cease" by sending a registered request to the collection agency. (google FDCPA). Their failure to stop calling after receiving a notice makes them subject to monetary penalties assessed by the Federal Trade Commission, a Federal agency.

You also say "there have been reports of garnishing of wages, seizing and auctioning off some of the owner's other assets, etc." I don't know where you read or heard these reports but actually no garnishment of wages or seizure of assets can occur following a foreclosure until the debt (deficiency between the value of the timeshare and amount received by the resort at the subsequent resale) has been reduced to a judgment. A judgment is not automatic. It is a complicated process and and such legal action is seldom if ever taken by the resort. The expense of the legal action usually outweighs the recovery potential. The venue for the suit to reduce the debt to a judgment is typically in the county where the timeshare is located. You must be served a notice of the suit at your home county so you will know you are being sued. If the resort gets a jugment it must then abstract (record) the judgment in your home state. Many states protect wages from garnishment and in many states the homestead and many other assets are exempt from seizure. The bottom line is that despite the "reports" you have heard it rarely happens.

The foreclosure will certainly impact one's credit and should be avoided to the degree possible not only to protect one's credit but also out of consideration for the other owners who must pick up the slack when an owner stops paying.

I have never and never will advocate that someone who can pay just stop paying their maintenance fees but by the same token I think those who are uninformed not post misinformation about the consequences of a default on this thread without actual references to legal proceedings that can be verified. Give us citations to "the reports" you have heard.

Avatar for Carvan A. Carvan A.

8 years ago
May 07, 2011

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