Worse crooks even than TS Developers

Timeshares are the gift which keep on taking, so to speak...

For all those out there who got taken by a developer, just look in your mailbox for the latest offer of "relief" from your TS burden. This is yet another scam from the same industry which picked your pocket way back when. Now they want to pick it again under the guise of "helping" you dump that worthless junk you shelled out $15 K for and which you shell out $700/yr for so-called maintenance.

If anything, the people doing this are even bigger crooks than the ones who whacked you in the first place. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the very same people are involved in this end of the business.

Remember -- the only people connected with the TS business in any way who might not be scumbag thieves are the housekeeping staff at your property.

samd12 wrote:

Timeshares are the gift which keep on taking, so to speak...

For all those out there who got taken by a developer, just look in your mailbox for the latest offer of "relief" from your TS burden. This is yet another scam from the same industry which picked your pocket way back when. Now they want to pick it again under the guise of "helping" you dump that worthless junk you shelled out $15 K for and which you shell out $700/yr for so-called maintenance.

If anything, the people doing this are even bigger crooks than the ones who whacked you in the first place. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the very same people are involved in this end of the business.

Remember -- the only people connected with the TS business in any way who might not be scumbag thieves are the housekeeping staff at your property.

Bitter words, with which I must (in part) respectfully disagree after my own nearly 25 years of affordable and enjoyable timeshare ownership and use.

Developer prices are obscene, no question. Yet, people keep on buying from developers at prices 75-85% higher than prices for what is (usually) the EXACT SAME THING on the "resale" market. Some people don't even bother to learn that there *IS* a resale market until AFTER they buy from a developer. Draw your own conclusions about that sad fact...

You are, however, absolutely right about the "Timeshare Relief" or "Timeshare Rescue" bandits. Although they have nothing whatsoever to do with developers, they have still found their OWN little niche to pick pockets. They are opportunists, taking advantage of owners so desperate to get rid of an unwanted timeshare that they will actually PAY someone $3500 to TAKE IT OFF THEIR HANDS! And people DO pay! What these bandits do is basically collect an amount equivalent to about 5-7 years worth of maintenance fees from a desperate owner, then dump the (sometimes nearly worthless, but not always) timeshare item on eBay for one dollar. They also use a mandatory "affiliated" closing company (can you say "kickback"?) and make some more money there too, even if selling the timeshare for only a dollar. The sooner they successfully "dump" the timeshare, the more of that $3500 (which they ALREADY have in hand) becomes profit. Yes, it's a racket; a very profitable one.

Timeshare can be affordable and enjoyable; it has been both for me for nearly 25 years now. But you have to learn to swim --- and swim well --- BEFORE jumping into the shark infested waters of timeshare. Those who jump right in BEFORE first learning to swim are known to the assorted hungry sharks circling around in the timeshare world as....BREAKFAST!

It starts from the developer with the domino affect on down the line .... upfront fee resellers, postcard companies, hawkers on the street offering big bucks for a presentation, lies told during a presentations, neglect to inform buyers of a rescission period etc. etc. etc.

The problem I have is that people wouldn't buy any other high cost purchase without due diligence and research to the max (the internet), however developer salespeople are very good at what they do in convincing you to buy and they will tell you anything to make a sale (including downright lies).

Although I don't condone postcard companies (the people who charge $3000+ to take your timeshare off your hands), I would hope that people that pay them have tried every possible way to sell their timeshare with no luck and the postcard company offer is their last straw to rid themselves of the timeshare albatross around their neck. People pay them approximately 3-4 years worth of maintenance fees for this service and many are happy just to be rid of the burden and all the costs related to such (rising maintenance fees forever, possible special assessments, rising exchange company fees, rising this, rising that etc.)

Yes, there's a myriad of abuses in the timeshare industry caused by the ripple effect. My # one main angst concerning timesharing are upfront fee resellers that take your money and do nothing in return. To me, this is out and out theivery.

The timeshare industry needs to be federally regulated from the developer on down the line, but so far the lies and abuses continue unabated.

ken1193

samd12 wrote:

Timeshares are the gift which keep on taking, so to speak...

For all those out there who got taken by a developer, just look in your mailbox for the latest offer of "relief" from your TS burden. This is yet another scam from the same industry which picked your pocket way back when. Now they want to pick it again under the guise of "helping" you dump that worthless junk you shelled out $15 K for and which you shell out $700/yr for so-called maintenance.

If anything, the people doing this are even bigger crooks than the ones who whacked you in the first place. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the very same people are involved in this end of the business.

Remember -- the only people connected with the TS business in any way who might not be scumbag thieves are the housekeeping staff at your property.

Bitter words, with which I must (in part) respectfully disagree after my own nearly 25 years of affordable and enjoyable timeshare ownership and use.

Developer prices are obscene, no question. Yet, people keep on buying from developers at prices 75-85% higher than prices for what is (usually) the EXACT SAME THING on the "resale" market. Some people don't even bother to learn that there *IS* a resale market until AFTER they buy from a developer. Draw your own conclusions about that sad fact...

You are, however, absolutely right about the "Timeshare Relief" or "Timeshare Rescue" bandits. Although they have nothing whatsoever to do with developers, they have still found their OWN little niche to pick pockets. They are opportunists, taking advantage of owners so desperate to get rid of an unwanted timeshare that they will actually PAY someone $3500 to TAKE IT OFF THEIR HANDS! And people DO pay! What these bandits do is basically collect an amount equivalent to about 5-7 years worth of maintenance fees from a desperate owner, then dump the (sometimes nearly worthless, but not always) timeshare item on eBay for one dollar. They also use a mandatory "affiliated" closing company (can you say "kickback"?) and make some more money there too, even if selling the timeshare for only a dollar. The sooner they successfully "dump" the timeshare, the more of that $3500 (which they ALREADY have in hand) becomes profit. Yes, it's a racket; a very profitable one.

Timeshare can be affordable and enjoyable; it has been both for me for nearly 25 years now. But you have to learn to swim --- and swim well --- BEFORE jumping into the shark infested waters of timeshare. Those who jump right in BEFORE first learning to swim are known to the assorted hungry sharks circling around in the timeshare world as....BREAKFAST!

Beautifully, beautifully, precisely written. Thank you!

For those of us who have been somebody's breakfast, the benefit of hindsight and the observation that we should have been more diligent about our purchase is no comfort at all. Isn't there something wrong with a system (and industry) which is predicated on taking advantage of customers' ignorance and/or naivete? Isn't there something wrong with lying and misrepresenting something to make a sale? Isn't there something wrong with bullying, high-pressure sales tactics tailor made to prey on marks who lack knowledge or sophistication?

Just because us "breakfast" folks were stupid, doe that mean we deserved to be cheated?

The whole timeshare industry is nothing but capitalism at its very worst. It is a system of legalized theft and fraud concocted through a cynical cabal of greedy developers and corrupt politicians.

samd12 has stated: >> For those of us who have been somebody's breakfast, the benefit of hindsight and the observation that we should have been more diligent about our purchase is no comfort at all. Isn't there something wrong with a system (and industry) which is predicated on taking advantage of customers' ignorance and/or naivete? Isn't there something wrong with lying and misrepresenting something to make a sale? Isn't there something wrong with bullying, high-pressure sales tactics tailor made to prey on marks who lack knowledge or sophistication?

Just because us "breakfast" folks were stupid, doe that mean we deserved to be cheated?

The whole timeshare industry is nothing but capitalism at its very worst. It is a system of legalized theft and fraud concocted through a cynical cabal of greedy developers and corrupt politicians. << =================================================

I don't necessarily disagree with all of the above, but to my knowledge no one here has at any time called anyone else "stupid" for having made bad financial decisions and choices. No one can help or reverse the fact that people make bad choices (and let's be honest and acknowledge that they were indeed voluntary CHOICES, not robberies at gunpoint). That's "water under the bridge" now.

As I see it, the purpose and benefit of these forums is to inform, educate and help others (not to provide comfort and solace) via the free and voluntary exchange of information and acquired knowledge. In gaining applicable and important knowledge BEFORE making choices and decisions, people can (hopefully) be steered away from making the same expensive mistakes and bad decisions made by others before them.

To be sure, there are hungry sharks and greedy parasites galore in the timeshare industry. The same can be said, for that matter, of the automobile industry, the banking industry, the oil industry, and a whole multitude of others. No one is going to reverse the path (or moral standards) of capitalism in a Internet forum on timeshare, but I for one offer no apology whatsoever for trying to help educate the uninformed and unwary to learn how to swim BEFORE they dive head first into what are clearly dangerous waters. Those who already chose to dive in head first can't be helped much now. That's an unfortunare fact which can't be denied or reversed at this point, but which is (in my view) no reason to not try to educate others to hep them avoid the same fate.

samd12 has stated: >> For those of us who have been somebody's breakfast, the benefit of hindsight and the observation that we should have been more diligent about our purchase is no comfort at all....

Just because us "breakfast" folks were stupid, does that mean we deserved to be cheated? << =================================================

To my knowledge, no one here has at any time called anyone else "stupid" for having made bad financial decisions and choices. No one can reverse the fact that people make bad choices (and let's be honest and acknowledge that they were indeed voluntary CHOICES, not robberies experienced at gunpoint). That's just "water under the bridge" now.

As I see it, the purpose and benefit of these forums is to inform and educate others (not to provide comfort and solace) through the exchange of information and acquired knowledge. In gaining applicable, important knowledge BEFORE making their choices and decisions, people can (hopefully) be steered away from making the same expensive mistakes and bad decisions made by others before them --- including you, apparently.

To be sure, there are hungry sharks and greedy parasites galore in the timeshare industry. The same can be said, for that matter, of the automobile industry, the banking industry, the oil industry, and a whole multitude of others. No one is going to alter the moral standards of capitalism in a little Internet forum on timeshare, but I for one offer no apology whatsoever for trying to help educate the uninformed and unwary to learn how to swim BEFORE they just dive right into what are clearly dangerous waters. Those who already chose to just dive in head first can't be helped much now. That's an unfortunate fact which can't be denied or reversed at this point, but which is (in my view) no reason to not try to educate others to help them avoid the same fate.

samd12 wrote:

For those of us who have been somebody's breakfast, the benefit of hindsight and the observation that we should have been more diligent about our purchase is no comfort at all. Isn't there something wrong with a system (and industry) which is predicated on taking advantage of customers' ignorance and/or naivete? Isn't there something wrong with lying and misrepresenting something to make a sale? Isn't there something wrong with bullying, high-pressure sales tactics tailor made to prey on marks who lack knowledge or sophistication?

Just because us "breakfast" folks were stupid, doe that mean we deserved to be cheated?

The whole timeshare industry is nothing but capitalism at its very worst. It is a system of legalized theft and fraud concocted through a cynical cabal of greedy developers and corrupt politicians.

The developer is not in business to sell resale weeks, they are in business to make money and to pay all creditors that they owe. A devloper week has a lot of overhead, from construction costs down to actually selling the weeks (salespeople and closers).

We bought our first timeshare via the developer before we found out about resale weeks. I don't blame the developer for this .... I blame MYSELF for not being more diligent in researching everything concerned with timesharing, especially with the internet at my fingertips. I didn't do my research until our rescission period was over but I then went on to buy several resale weeks. I chalked the developer bought week up to a hard lesson learned, due to MY OWN FAULT.

If people would research before buying such a big ticket item as a timeshare (information is all over the internet) then developers would go broke. I don't condone developers, but I take responsibility for buying from one in the first place.

You'd be surprised at how many people buy more than one week from the developer, because they think resales are somehow inferior.

samd12 wrote:

Just because us "breakfast" folks were stupid, doe that mean we deserved to be cheated?.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. In other words if the 'breakfast folks' heard what they wanted to hear at that breakfast and took the bait, then it's their own fault .... they drank the kool-aid.

IF IT WASN'T FOR DEVELOPER SALES THERE WOULD BE NO RESALES AT ALL IN THE MARKETPLACE.

jayjay wrote:

it's their own fault .... they drank the kool-aid.

====================================================

Yes, that is true...BUT taking that analogy a step further, isn't there something wrong with the kind of people who would sell the kool-aid?

Our government at least tries to protect us from those who would sell us narcotics by prosecuting and imprisoning them. It at least regulates those who seek to sell us alcohol, tobacco, and prescription medications.

samd12 wrote:

Our government at least tries to protect us from those who would sell us narcotics by prosecuting and imprisoning them. It at least regulates those who seek to sell us alcohol, tobacco, and prescription medications.

I totally agree that all phases of the timeshare industry needs to be federally regulated (from developer sales to upfront fee resale scam companies to postcard companies and everything in between) and I have espoused that many times in these forums.

I also think all presentations should be mandatorily tape recorded and filed in a database with a copy given to buyers as there are many exaggerations spouted by developer salespeople such as "if you buy this timeshare, you can exchange it for any resort in the (RCI or II) wishbooks". This is simply not true since exchanging is all about supply and demand and the exchange power of the week owned.

Some developer salespeople will also tell you that, "you can rent out your weeks with absolutely no problem and make a profit". This is also simply not true, as once again, it's all about supply and demand of the week you own. Many owners that have weeks that are in demand do good to be reimbursed to cover their maintenance fees for rentals in the vast majority of cases excluding the higher end resorts (Marriott, 4 Seasons, Hyatt, Hilton, Disney etc.).

jayjay wrote:

samd12 wrote:

For those of us who have been somebody's breakfast, the benefit of hindsight and the observation that we should have been more diligent about our purchase is no comfort at all. Isn't there something wrong with a system (and industry) which is predicated on taking advantage of customers' ignorance and/or naivete? Isn't there something wrong with lying and misrepresenting something to make a sale? Isn't there something wrong with bullying, high-pressure sales tactics tailor made to prey on marks who lack knowledge or sophistication?

Just because us "breakfast" folks were stupid, doe that mean we deserved to be cheated?

The whole timeshare industry is nothing but capitalism at its very worst. It is a system of legalized theft and fraud concocted through a cynical cabal of greedy developers and corrupt politicians.

The developer is not in business to sell resale weeks, they are in business to make money and to pay all creditors that they owe. A devloper week has a lot of overhead, from construction costs down to actually selling the weeks (salespeople and closers).

We bought our first timeshare via the developer before we found out about resale weeks. I don't blame the developer for this .... I blame MYSELF for not being more diligent in researching everything concerned with timesharing, especially with the internet at my fingertips. I didn't do my research until our rescission period was over but I then went on to buy several resale weeks. I chalked the developer bought week up to a hard lesson learned, due to MY OWN FAULT.

If people would research before buying such a big ticket item as a timeshare (information is all over the internet) then developers would go broke. I don't condone developers, but I take responsibility for buying from one in the first place.

You'd be surprised at how many people buy more than one week from the developer, because they think resales are somehow inferior.

jayjay wrote:

samd12 wrote:

For those of us who have been somebody's breakfast, the benefit of hindsight and the observation that we should have been more diligent about our purchase is no comfort at all. Isn't there something wrong with a system (and industry) which is predicated on taking advantage of customers' ignorance and/or naivete? Isn't there something wrong with lying and misrepresenting something to make a sale? Isn't there something wrong with bullying, high-pressure sales tactics tailor made to prey on marks who lack knowledge or sophistication?

Just because us "breakfast" folks were stupid, doe that mean we deserved to be cheated?

The whole timeshare industry is nothing but capitalism at its very worst. It is a system of legalized theft and fraud concocted through a cynical cabal of greedy developers and corrupt politicians.

The developer is not in business to sell resale weeks, they are in business to make money and to pay all creditors that they owe. A devloper week has a lot of overhead, from construction costs down to actually selling the weeks (salespeople and closers).

We bought our first timeshare via the developer before we found out about resale weeks. I don't blame the developer for this .... I blame MYSELF for not being more diligent in researching everything concerned with timesharing, especially with the internet at my fingertips. I didn't do my research until our rescission period was over but I then went on to buy several resale weeks. I chalked the developer bought week up to a hard lesson learned, due to MY OWN FAULT.

If people would research before buying such a big ticket item as a timeshare (information is all over the internet) then developers would go broke. I don't condone developers, but I take responsibility for buying from one in the first place.

You'd be surprised at how many people buy more than one week from the developer, because they think resales are somehow inferior.

When you purchased your resale did you run it through an escrow company?

tawnib wrote:

When you purchased your resale did you run it through an escrow company?

When we bought our resales we used a closing company to handle all the paperwork and that included escrow. For some reputable closing companies you can do a search here on Redweek.