Marriott Going to Point Syst

Some of us are here too. We don't always spend all of our energy on TUG.

However, J227 is still innocent until proven guilty.

We will need to see what Marriott will do.

Just for the record I am not an employee or a Marriott plant.

In fact I wrote a letter to Marriott stating that they needed to: - Promptly eliminate the provison in the contract where owners have to give up their rights to not support every aspect of the new plan. I pointed out that TRUST is important and they are loosing it. - Clearly state in writing how current deeded owners will be able to maintain their priority at their home location. - Provide a clear explanation of why the difference in points between what they give us and the number needed to go back into the same resort.

So I am not just supporting everything they do nor am I just making up worst case potential answers. I will make my final judgments based on how quicky and well they respond.

I do agree that they have not adequately communicated an appropriate level of detail on how this plan is to actually be implemented.

Most important point. While it is helpful to chat on the internet with owners, I encourge owners to provide their coments to Marriott.

I agree. Every owner should contact Marriott directly. Every owner should also delay purchasing this new plan until more information is clear. If no one purchases it, nothing changes :-)

I tried the same thing with our Lahaina Tower property thinking maybe I could bank one so we could get two villas the same week following year (hard to get that property during summer with II). However, similar to your Kauai story, if we turn it in, it is not enough points to return to the same property (during the same season). CRAZY! We own Maui, Desert Springs II, and Shadow Ridge and have no intention of using the points system for any. Hopefully Interval will continue to be a good option for us. I also think the enrollment fee is outrageous considering the fortune we already paid for our poperty. Shame on Marriot for charging Marriott owners to enroll in a "Marriott program" - annual fee is fair but if you want us to use it, don't charge us to join!

Since you got a response to your communication to Bill Marriott, it would be nice to know the address that you used. I once sent a letter to him and it was merely forwarded to my home resort which was not helpful at all. I used snail mail. Thanks for any help you provide.

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Apparently (based on information reported in the Bill Marriott blog) Marriott will now have the right to snatch up all Interval International Marriott weeks that have been deposited, and can then use this inventory for their own points program. Does anyone know if this accurate? If so, there will be no chance to do II Marriott to Marriott trades as in the past.

Also, if I read it right, once you enroll in the points program, you would no longer have the option of renting out your reserved weeks yourself. Does anyone know anything about this?

On the occasion that you need to occupy your home resort you would not take points. You just book it like you always did. It's only when you want to exchange internally through Marriott that you would use points.

You can still rent it out. Every year, you'll have your standard option: A) Convert to points or B) Use the traditional WEEKS system. I recommend that the year you plan on doing rentals, do not convert to points just pick the week you want at your home resort.

It is very unfortunate. I'm a big believer in the flexibility of points systmes. however I have witnessed how DRI and WVR increasingly take advantage of the owners and Marriott is sending strong signals they will also use this points tool to do the same.

It's time to wake up and collectively say no to developers when they will not provide equitable and just benefits. I am horrified at the idea Marriott will not only charge current owners to change to points but will also benefit from allocating fewer points to those owners so that Marriott can sell more timeshares.

Let's say you are offered 80,000 points (just an example, I don't know what the point values are) to convert your week but the point value for your week is 100,000. Marriott tells you they will always allow you to use your alloted week/season even though your point value is less than the required value. But by allocating 80k to you for a 100k unit, Marriott now has the ability to both sell 20% more timeshares (20,000 difference on the 100,000 points, or heck it's 25% if you cal based on the 80,000 they allocate to you) without spending a dime (oh wait, they actually made you pay for them so they can have that additional 20-25%), I bet they also might have the ability to seat company members on the HOA boards again.

It doesn't stop there. the new contract they will have you sign will more than likely contain language providing them even more control over your timeshares. DRI for example has the ability to change Club and Collections contract rules without owner input. You know DRI owners in points get a 50% discount on available reservations less than 60 days in advance? A year or two ago DRI changed it so the discount only applies to 7 night reservations, more or less nights are not discounted until 30 days in advance. What else? Oh yeah, DRI changed the rules so any inventory 30 or 60 days before checkin can be used by DRI to rent to people ... but the rental income goes to DRI and not the members' HOA funds. WVR is a bit different but over the pst 3 years they have also implemented changes "in the owners' best interest" which many owners specifically complained was not in their best interest at all.

That is what you all have to look forward to if you pay Marriott to move from weeks to points.

I honestly don't remember how I found Mr. Marriott's address. I thought I found it somewhere on the Marriott web site, but I just searched and could not find it anywhere. I may have asked a person on the phone when I was filing my complaint. However, I just did an internet search and found Marriott International's address: Marriott International, Inc.

* Marriott International, Inc. * 10400 Fernwood Rd. * Bethesda, MD 20817 Map * Phone: 301-380-3000 * Fax: 301-380-3969 It's worth a try.

I think peterp151 has it right. Owners need to be aware of the many perils associated with points- based timeshare programs. In the timeshare industry, there are already many sad examples of manipulation and even fraud associated with points-based programs. That is why I have always avoided those programs in the past. Buyers beware.

After much research on this topic, I still don't consider myself an expert by any means. But I have come to the conclusion that this new points program is about three things:

1. Marriott wants to create new revenue opportunities under the banner of "flexibility". But that flexibility comes at a cost for sure. In addition to new fees, Marriott will give you fewer points than is required for you to trade back into your home resort during your season (called "points skimming"). The other points-based timeshare programs do not skim points.

2. Marriott wants to create a new mechanism to dump undesirable weeks in undesirable locations. Because they were hard to sell via the deeded week method, this new points method has been devised. But the net effect will be to create even more competition for the desirable weeks in the desirable locations that people really want to visit.

3. Marriott wants to gain greater control over the resorts and the processes. Part of the points enrollment contract states that you agree to limit your proxy voting rights. You are free to vote so long as you never vote against Marriott. If enough owners enroll in the points program, then Marriott will take complete control of the board of directors. How's that for control?

For owners who want to visit their home resorts and do relatively little trading, it is hard for me to see how enrollment in this new points program makes any sense. I am this type of owner. My greatest fear is that the deeded week owners will now find it more difficult to reserve their desired week at their home resort because of inventory being diverted away for points owners.

Some deeded week owners deliberately purchased at inexpensive locations that they had no intention of visiting. Their sole focus is on trading. Those owners are in a much more difficult spot now - Marriott has them over a barrel. In this situation, I think enrollment in this new points program might make more sense. It will be the only effective way for you to continue trading into Marriott resorts. But set your expectations properly, as this new points program will not allow you to get the same trades that you have received in the past. Any excess inventory will be allocated to points owners under valuation rules that Marriott controls. I think Marriott did that on purpose. Marriott wanted to eliminate the bargain traders who got a 2-bedroom at Ko Olina in exchange for a lock-off at Orlando. Those bargain trades represented lost revenue for Marriott. The days of bargain trading are gone.

HEllo, you make excellent points regarding this new "opportunity" Marriott has devised. We were very happy with our timeshare purchases and our ability to trade over the years, this has now been snatched away by this new program. We feel our deeded property has been DEVALUED by Marriott. Our chances for trading are diminished as they are taking out all unsold and new property out of the available inventory per a Marriott manager I spoke with. I believe you are right, they will take the premium weeks for this new system. We should not have to pay to get into this system either, we should have been grandfathered in! When I spoke with a Marriott rep she said that the fee was justified because it takes money to create a new program! It shouldn't be on our dime! That being said, I want no part of this points program but almost feel like we will have to join so we can trade...with their points, we can get a 1 bedroom for 1week in Maui for our 2 units (2bedroom and 3 bedroom) in Grande Vista! So, it's 5 bedrooms for one with a few points left over-it would take 4475 points-we would only have 6500 points! What's to say the points won't be worth less in a few years- just like the Marriott rewards points system-250,000points doesn't get you what it did 8 years ago. Also, with this new system, you lose control of your trading ability in that a Marriott Rep handles it all. They know all the inventory and make all the trades-we will not truly know what is available and the convenience of working through II ourselves is lost. They also have taken the "dream factor" away! I love being able to see what is available all over the world and making my own choices at any time of the day or night! Also, will our fees go up? If individuals have the ability to take small mini vacations, they will need more housekeeping staff to cleanup the rooms more frequently and the inventory could fluctuate so much that resources would be wasted. That costs money! We are so disappointed that Marriott has done this....put us over a barrel as you stated! They say we can keep what we have and that nothing will change but it has and I think we will all be "forced" into this program in the end...kinda like another program we all know about! And, if we don't join by 12/31/2010, what will be the fee to join after that....the Marriott manager did not even know that! Oh yes, I took a survey from Marriott about 1 1/2 years ago about this and I gave them this same feedback....obviously my thoughts didn't resonate with them....hey Marriott do you hear us now? Obviously not as the manager stated that she would forward my remarks but doubted anything would change as they have put so many resources toward this new program! Thanks for listening and letting me vent! I'm sorry if this message doesn't flow-but I am angry!

One more thing, under the new point system you cannot give family or friends a guest certificate! This was such a nice option. We were able to give both our children a weeks vacation anywhere in the world for graduating college and for their honeymoon. Again, they have devalued our property and our ability to use our property!

I just spoke to a Marriott representative. She told me that owners of weeks purchased on the secondary market (such as Red Week) after the June 17th conversion date will not be able to make resevations at the resort they purchased until all Marriot owners who purchased their weeks or bought points through Marriott have been satisfied. In addition since you now have to do everything through Marriott they know whether or not you purchased your week through them. They also will be the only ones who will actually know if there is inventory available or not and could just say that nothing is available for the dates you want. Apparently secondary market purchased weeks (due to Marriott's right of first refusal) are coded with a special letter as a means of identification. That provision would seem to make secondary market sales after June 17th essentially useless. Since the purchasers of deeded weeks own them regardless of from whom they were purchased and Marriott no longer does, it isn't clear to me how they can legally can apply this restriction. It used to be that you didn't receive Marriott points when you bought on the secondary market but you were able to make resevations as owners like everyone else. Has anyone else been given the same information? Thank you.

I don't find it credible that Marriott would not allow access to third party owners. I do find it credible that a Marriott sales person would say this as they wish to make the sale.

The larger questions is: since everyone wishes to sell their unit at some point, what role is Marriott going to play on sales transactions -- either points or units?

Also, since they wish to get everyone on points, their current strategy of not allowing third party purchasers to "buy in" is not understandable. What do they expect deed owners to do when they no longer wish to have the unit?

I called Marriott customer service again and asked the same question and received the same answer. Those who bought before the conversion date can become members althought they will pay a much larger membership fee but subsequent secondary market sales will not be given the opportunity. It seems the priority reservation system whether you join the new program or not puts secondary market purchasers behind everyone. I would be interested in knowing if anyone else has encountered this information. Thank you.

I spent awhile speaking to a Marriott advisor and this is what I've learned. The concept is great but I just wonder how it will play out. The points are only good at Marriotts with unsold villas or if a Marriott owner deposits their week as points. For example, if St Kitts has zero unsold inventory or an owner at St Kitts deposits their week as a week through interval then your points won't work here. The only benefit of points in a case like this is you're on the point list and interval list but there's no guarantee you'll get in. A lot of upfront money. I've spoken to 3 Marriott people and each time I've learned so much more. keep calling and find out the pros and cons.

I just found out that you cannot give anyone a guest certificate because there IS NO guest certificate required. ANYONE can use a reservation an owner has made. No fees like II requires, and that is for any enrolled member specific to Marriott properties. Hope that helps.

How is it that the Trust Owners Administration is made of people who are owners of the Land Trust? That is no different from folks who bought a timeshare and sit on the BOD of their home resort? Florida does not allow the Developer, any Developer to have majority vote of a land trust. I'm not challenging you and I don't work for Marriott, I spent good money on a Hawaii timeshare with Marriott and I'm reading everything cause I'm a bit spooked about wether or not to enroll. I concerned about skimming like anyone else and when I asked about my home resort they (sales gal) said I can always book my home resort without electing to take points if that is what I want to do. The old system I could just bank and trade back in but I tried one time and could'nt get it at all. II said it's probably because there are fewer weeks deposited from the region as a whole with summer dates. I don't know if I will benefit from the points program as I look at my personal useage, but I suppose I'm not opposed to the system being changed so long as I have my home resort with the legacy inventory. And, there are difinately two inventories at every resort in the trust so for me, well, I'm comfortable that as long as I book my home resort I'm okay.