Proper Way to Pay for a Rental and not get Scammed

I've never rented a timeshare before. What's the best way to do this to protect both myself and the owner? I don't feel comfortable just sending a significant payment to someone I don't know. Can I call the property and ask if the person owns the timeshare? Can I pay half now and half when I arrive? Any suggestions?

Sure, if the owner provides the name in which the unit / week is owned, you can then confirm that information by calling the resort directly. However, don't expect any resort to GIVE you any owner information, since for owner privacy protection a resort will (and should) only CONFIRM information which you already have obtained on your own. It's a good idea to do this, actually, since it also confirms that you are not renting a week which someone has acquired by RCI or II exchange and is now trying to rent out --- a practice which is strictly prohibited by BOTH of those exchange companies (and which could result in loss of BOTH owner membership in the exchange company AND loss of renter access to the unit / week).

Terms of payment for a rental must, of course, be acceptable to both owner and renter. You may (as the renter) want to consider using an escrow service to handle the funds (at a cost of about $150; a cost which the owner may or may not be willing to "split" with you). However, some owners find the use of escrow services completely unacceptable, since under an escrow service arrangement the owner won't actually get paid until several weeks AFTER the rental has been completed. Many owners want their payment in full long BEFORE the rental period. I do not sympathize with such owners, but I can at least understand their point of view. Their maintenance fees must be paid in advance, so it is not entirely unreasonable for them to want to collect rent in advance too...

Today Marriott has told me that they have "NEW RULES" THAT FORBID removing my name from my confirmed reservation, they can only add another name to the reservation. If damage should happen during my confirmed week, I will be financially responsible for any and all damages even though I will not be occupying the unit.

In past years when I have had an unfortunate illness in the family and we have not been able to occupy our unit at our home resort, we have rented the unit and made a name change. Marriott used to charge a fee for the name change. Owner Services today denied that ever was a procedure that they agreed to. However, they certainly took my money and made the name change a few years ago.

Has anyone had experience with renters damaging and incurring financial charges for which the owners to the deeded week is responsible?

HELP! How did I ever get myself involved in this mess?

Anyone out there who can make a recommendation? I have lots of interest in my week and no shortage of eager renters. But now Marriott is changing the rules.

barbaraf correctly observes: Re: >> If damage should happen during my confirmed week, I will be financially responsible for any and all damages even though I will not be occupying the unit.<< ===============================================

Legally, that is actually (and has ALWAYS been) exactly the case at virtually ANY resort anywhere...

While an owner can attempt to establish contractual responsibility for damages by a renter through a rental agreement, the resorts' (legally correct) viewpoint is that the actual owner is always ultimately responsible for whatever damages are sustained during the owners reserved week. The only exception is when the resort has conducted a rental on the owner's behalf, in which case the resort assumes full responsibility for thje renter. If a credit card deposit left with a resort by a renter (i.e., in a private rental by owner, not a resort-direct rental) doesn't cover the cost of incurred damage repairs, rest assured that ANY and EVERY resort will ALWAYS come straight after the owner (...not the renter) for the cost difference. It then becomes the owners' responsibility to go after the renter to recover any "cost differences".

Don't shoot the messenger; that's just how it is...

lillianw2 wrote:

I've never rented a timeshare before. What's the best way to do this to protect both myself and the owner? I don't feel comfortable just sending a significant payment to someone I don't know. Can I call the property and ask if the person owns the timeshare? Can I pay half now and half when I arrive? Any suggestions?

Use an escrow service if you are one bit hesitant to send money to a timeshare owner for a rental.

You can also 'search forums' for a sample rental contract that should answer many of your questions.

Re: >> Use an escrow service if you are one bit hesitant to send money to a timeshare owner for a rental. << ===============================================

This is sound advice, but as I pointed out previously in this same thread, please be reminded that some owners simply will NOT accept the use of an escrow service, since it means they won't receive their funds until several weeks AFTER the rental has been completed. In short, BOTH parties (owner and renter) must agree in advance to the use of an escrow service --- it's not solely a renter decision to make unilaterally without owner agreement. Many (maybe most) owners who will agree to the "delayed payment" process of a escrow service will, in turn, usually expect the renter to bear the entire cost of using that service in the first place. For the renter, this essentially means an additional $150 cost on top of the actual rental figure.

A Crook is a crook, is a crook, is a crook. IF a "Crook" is Determined (really intends) to Scam you, ...he WILL Succeed! Justice, is when a 'Crook' gets "Scammed".

'Problems' between Owner and Renter can be nearly avoided if they have 'considerable' dialogue (preferably via teleconversation) and a FINAL WRITTEN (and signed) AGREEMENT.

>>>renting a week which someone has acquired by RCI or II exchange and is now trying to rent out

------> a practice which is strictly prohibited by BOTH of those exchange companies (and which could result in loss of BOTH owner membership in the exchange company AND loss of renter access to the unit / week). ~ken1193<<<

For real?

Just great, not!

I find it infuriating that the rep left this very important tidbit out of their spiel.

lorit80 quotes, then comments: >> renting a week which someone has acquired by RCI or II exchange and is now trying to rent out is a practice which is strictly prohibited by BOTH of those exchange companies (and which could result in loss of BOTH owner membership in the exchange company AND loss of renter access to the unit / week). <<

Re: >> I find it infuriating that the rep left this very important tidbit out of their spiel.<< ==============================================

I don't know what "rep" you refer to, but it has ALWAYS been so --- a week acquired by exchange can NEVER be rented out for profit. However, don't confuse this long-standing policy with the equally true fact that you certainly CAN rent out any week which you actually OWN, as you may see fit. You just can't rent out a week which you DON'T own, but have instead obtained for one-time use via the deposit / exchange process of either RCI or II.

By "rep" I am referring to is the In-house sales person that sold me the Timeshare package.

I checked with the actual Timeshare company, since I don't have II on my speed dial. :-)

I spoke with the person that handles booking and expressed my concerns with this revelation. She thought it was not true, but opted to go and make sure before advising me; she was rather curious herself. She walked to their In-house II section and confirmed that what you stated was indeed true, you're not supposed to rent out a week obtained via the RCI or II exchange program.

However, there is a grey area, a fine line if you will.

1) As long as that was not the intent when the week was secured via the exchange program ....

2) Most importantly, as long as the place itself where you own the Timeshare does not have a problem with it ....

3) As long as you do not attempt to continue to profit by renting out exchanged weeks ....

then allowing another to use my week, whether I rent it for a nominal fee, rent it for the going rate or gift it to a friend in need of a vacation, it is NOT a problem for another name to use my exchanged week.

The key is with numbers 2 and 3 listed above, because obviously, this world is riddle with liars and people who love to walk across the fine lines set before them.

No I did not buy this Timeshare with the intent to profit from it. My week is not even booked for the most desirable times and as a matter of fact, I booked it from a Sunday to a Sunday, because I prefer to go against the grain of traffic. ;-)

I can't make it this year and that is that. It was another option (renting it out) as opposed to throwing it back into the kitty and attempting to secure another week via II. I am already looking at another week available to me this coming calendar year so it's obvious that I don't need it and as long as it's not a continued (read trackable) practice, it's OK by them, the place where I own that Timeshare.

Thanks very much for enlightening me though Ken.

Unfortunately, you were given completely incorrect information by this (unidentified) "timeshare company" in the cited "items 1, 2 and 3" above. The II and RCI terms and conditions of service are crystal clear and in writing on the issue of renting out weeks obtained via exchange --- and it has simply always been prohibited. Resorts have no say in the exchange company rules and /or terms and conditions of membership --- none at all.

If II or RCI discover that a week obtained from them via exchange is later rented out by one of their members, RCI and/or II can (and will) unilaterally cancel the membership AND cancel the reservation, leaving the member without an exchange company membership and leaving the would-be "renter" with no place to stay. "Intent" and "resort opinion" and "future practices" are all completely irrelevant and have absolutely nothing to do with this issue. Yes, some people do it anyhow -- and some "get away with it", but the risks of violation of terms of membership (as specifically identified above) are both very clear and very real.

Don't shoot the messenger; I'm merely informing you of the long standing, crystal clear, written, terms and conditions of both of these two exchange companies. You can rent a week which you actually OWN (i.e., you pay the maintenance fees, you're the deeded owner) however you may see fit, at any price you can command. BUT--- you CAN'T rent out to someone else ANY week which you DON'T actually own, but have instead merely acquired from either RCI or II via the deposit / exchange process. Period. No exceptions, no exemptions, no "grey area". You can get a guest certificate in someone else's name from the exchange company, but there can be no actual compensation between the parties involved. I didn't write the rules --- but I HAVE certainly read and understood them quite clearly in the course of my 25 years of timeshare ownership...

It's your decision to make ---and your risk to take. Good luck.

lorit80 wrote:

However, there is a grey area, a fine line if you will.

1) As long as that was not the intent when the week was secured via the exchange program ....

Intent has nothing to do with it, renting exchanges for profit from RCI and II is against their rules and regulations, period.

Quote:

2) Most importantly, as long as the place itself where you own the Timeshare does not have a problem with it ....

The resort (place itself) where you own has absolutely nothing to do with it .... once you deposit your week and/or exchange it for another, the resort where you own is totally out of the picture .... it's then between you and the exchange company, period.

Quote:

3) As long as you do not attempt to continue to profit by renting out exchanged weeks ....

False information, again it's against RCI and II rules for an exchange to be rented for profit, period.

Quote:

then allowing another to use my week, whether I rent it for a nominal fee, rent it for the going rate or gift it to a friend in need of a vacation, it is NOT a problem for another name to use my exchanged week.

The only truth to the above is if you gift it to a friend or relative with the only reimbursement to you being the guest certificate fee and the exchange fee .... nothing more.

Quote:

The key is with numbers 2 and 3 listed above, because obviously, this world is riddle with liars and people who love to walk across the fine lines set before them.

Exactly, that's why RCI and II have the 'no rental of exchanges' rule.

Quote:

I can't make it this year and that is that. It was another option (renting it out) as opposed to throwing it back into the kitty and attempting to secure another week via II.

If you own the week and have not deposited it with an exchange company for an exchange, then yes, you are free to rent any week you own. The exchange companies will have not been involved whatsoever.

It's also against RCI and II rules to sell deposits (deposits made but not yet exchanged.)

ken1193 wrote:

Unfortunately, you were given completely incorrect information by this (unidentified) "timeshare company" in the cited "items 1, 2 and 3" above.

It was not incorrect and it was addressed in the paragraph preceeding 1, 2 and 3.

It IS a NO, NO to rent out an exchanged week obtained via RCI or II.

The (unidentified) "timeshare company" confirmed it with their In house II section. That important tidbit was indeed digested and understood.

ken1193 wrote:

The II and RCI terms and conditions of service are crystal clear and in writing on the issue of renting out weeks obtained via exchange --- and it has simply always been prohibited. Resorts have no say in the exchange company rules and /or terms and conditions of membership --- none at all.

Understood Ken, it is a risk that "I" would take if "I" were to rent/gift out my II exchanged week. No need to beat me over the head with the point. I definately understood the important aspect of what you were stating. :-)

ken1193 wrote:

If II or RCI discover that a week obtained from them via exchange is later rented out by one of their members, RCI and/or II can (and will) unilaterally cancel the membership AND cancel the reservation, leaving the member without an exchange company membership and leaving the would-be "renter" with no place to stay.

Yes, yes. Again, that's a risk that affects ME and MY MEMBERSHIP with the exchange company.

Now, if the hypothetical would-be "renter" was indeed inconvenienced by my bad luck (getting caught in such a practise by the exchange company), they would most definately receive their hypothetical refund of all monies paid, assuming it wasn't gifted.

ken1193 wrote:

"Intent" and "resort opinion" and "future practices" are all completely irrelevant and have absolutely nothing to do with this issue.

I absolutely realize that Ken. I'm not so ignorant as to think that I am protected by some umbrella of safety because the Timeshare company themself said, "We don't mind if you do it."

ken1193 wrote:

Yes, some people do it anyhow -- and some "get away with it", but the risks of violation of terms of membership (as specifically identified above) are both very clear and very real.

Again, fully understood Ken. Although some days I might look it, I can assure you, I am not the walking dead. ;-)

Of note, it is starting to become VERY apparent to me that more than SOME "get away with it". It was indeed how "I" first went to visit said resort. I was offered someones exchanged week for slightly below, market value price.

ken1193 wrote:

Don't shoot the messenger; I'm merely informing you of the long standing, crystal clear, written, terms and conditions of both of these two exchange companies.

Naw, I'd never shoot the messenger. I'd even toss them a shank of meat and a tankard of ale for their return journey.

ken1193 wrote:

You can rent a week which you actually OWN (i.e., you pay the maintenance fees, you're the deeded owner) however you may see fit, at any price you can command. BUT--- you CAN'T rent out to someone else ANY week which you DON'T actually own, but have instead merely acquired from either RCI or II via the deposit / exchange process. Period. No exceptions, no exemptions, no "grey area".

Ok Ken, quit talking with your mouth full. Enjoy that shank and ale, you've a long journey ahead of you. ;)

IOW I FULLY comprehended it the first time around. It is a risk that "I" would be taking, IF I were to rent/gift out my "exchanged" week.

ken1193 wrote:

You can get a guest certificate in someone else's name from the exchange company, but there can be no actual compensation between the parties involved. I didn't write the rules --- but I HAVE certainly read and understood them quite clearly in the course of my 25 years of timeshare ownership...

It's your decision to make ---and your risk to take. Good luck.

Aye, we need all the luck we can get these days huh?

Although the Timeshare place itself said 'it's not that big of a deal to us." Yes, they are not in control of RCI or II and again, I most definately realize that.

Now, if they (The Timeshare company) indeed does not care one way or another, that means that the threat you mentioned earlier, that I could possibly loose the actual deed to my Timeshare by engaging in such practices, isn't such a threat/concern now is it?

OF NOTE: I'm am still VERY much on the fence about the idea. I don't like dancing around in ANY grey area. It's beyond my comfort zone.

Enjoy the meat and ale Ken, after 25 years of playing messenger, you've earned it!

lorit80 wrote:

Yes, yes. Again, that's a risk that affects ME and MY MEMBERSHIP with the exchange company.

Now, if the hypothetical would-be "renter" was indeed inconvenienced by my bad luck (getting caught in such a practise by the exchange company), they would most definately receive their hypothetical refund of all monies paid, assuming it wasn't gifted.

lorit80 wrote:

Enjoy the meat and ale Ken, after 25 years of playing messenger, you've earned it!

There have been renters of exchanges turned away at check-in .... how would you handle this scenario?

I wouldn't even think about renting an exchange just for a little profit .... it's just not worth the risks involved.

Perhaps the Tug threads below will open your eyes as to what can happen if you rent an II exchange ... copy and paste urls:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70825&highlight=renting+rci+ii+exchanges

and here:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44041&highlight=renting+rci+ii+exchanges

lorit80 has somehow inaccurately interpreted: >> ...the threat you mentioned earlier, that I could possibly lose the actual deed to my Timeshare by engaging in such practices...<< =============================================

For the record, I never stated (or in any way even remotely implied) any such thing. No one can just "take away" your deeded ownership (except in foreclosure proceedings, which is not under discussion here at all). I stated that the exchange company could cancel your MEMBERSHIP and that the exchange company could also cancel the "rented" exchange reservation --- no more, no less. I don't know how you could possibly have ever interpreted that as in any way stating or implying a "threat...of losing an actual deed".

In any event, I certainly wasn't trying to "beat you over the head" (your words). I was merely trying to ensure that you clearly understand the actual facts of the matter, since the actual facts differ so markedly from the very strange (and very wrong) "grey area" fable which you reported as having been spun to you by some unidentified "timeshare company" storyteller. You are certainly free to do as you wish. I'm not the timeshare police; I didn't apply for (nor do I ever want) that particular job.

I don't at all understand the "shank of meat and tankard of ale" reference or offer, but since I do indeed always appreciate and enjoy a good ale, I take no offense...

Mike1536 brought up a very good point --- a would-be renter turned away from a resort because of a cancelled reservation associated with the improper rental of an exchange could conceivably be "out" a whole lot of money besides just the "rental" cost (e.g., airfare, baggage fees, car rental, fuel costs, lost vacation time, having to pay for alternative lodging --- the latter perhaps not even being available AT ALL in peak seasons). Such an expensive and unwelcome surprise development could find an intrepid "would-be landlord attempting to improperly rent out an exchange" on the receiving end of a lawsuit for compensatory (and punitive) damages by a justifiably angry, completely innocent would-be renter. The plaintiff would win, hands down, 100% of the time in such a clear cut matter. Being left without an exchange company membership and then also potentially being named "defendant" in (and ultimately losing in) a lawsuit is not a risk I would be willing to take, personally. Your mileage may vary...

lorit80 wrote:

By "rep" I am referring to is the In-house sales person that sold me the Timeshare package.

I checked with the actual Timeshare company, since I don't have II on my speed dial. :-)

I spoke with the person that handles booking and expressed my concerns with this revelation. She thought it was not true, but opted to go and make sure before advising me; she was rather curious herself. She walked to their In-house II section and confirmed that what you stated was indeed true, you're not supposed to rent out a week obtained via the RCI or II exchange program.

However, there is a grey area, a fine line if you will.

1) As long as that was not the intent when the week was secured via the exchange program ....

2) Most importantly, as long as the place itself where you own the Timeshare does not have a problem with it ....

3) As long as you do not attempt to continue to profit by renting out exchanged weeks ....

then allowing another to use my week, whether I rent it for a nominal fee, rent it for the going rate or gift it to a friend in need of a vacation, it is NOT a problem for another name to use my exchanged week.

The key is with numbers 2 and 3 listed above, because obviously, this world is riddle with liars and people who love to walk across the fine lines set before them.

No I did not buy this Timeshare with the intent to profit from it. My week is not even booked for the most desirable times and as a matter of fact, I booked it from a Sunday to a Sunday, because I prefer to go against the grain of traffic. ;-)

I can't make it this year and that is that. It was another option (renting it out) as opposed to throwing it back into the kitty and attempting to secure another week via II. I am already looking at another week available to me this coming calendar year so it's obvious that I don't need it and as long as it's not a continued (read trackable) practice, it's OK by them, the place where I own that Timeshare.

Thanks very much for enlightening me though Ken.

I'd like to know where the 'grey area' you refer to concerning rentals of RCI and II exchanges came from .... there's no such 'grey area'. Please read the two Tug threads concerning exchangers renting their exchanges that I posted above.

The reason RCI and II do not permit rentals of exchanges is because ALL the most popular exchanges would be snapped up in a NY minute and rented for profit. This rule is to protect their membership.

mike1536 wrote:

I'm curious...in addition to the "hypothetical refund of all monies paid" would you also cover any additional costs incurred because the party had to find alternative lodging.

Of course I would!

I would not only refund the original hypothetical rental amount, I'd happily compensate them an exorbitant and obscene amount from the hypothetical million dollars that I have stashed in my mattress. ;P